What has been your experience on paid hunts.

[Buckmaster Flash]

I was just curious what kind of experiences others have had on paid hunts. This past August (last week of Aug) I went on a black bear hunt in Jellicoe, Ontario (about an hour or so north of the Lake Superior hump). The hunt was a waste of money and vacation time. Wasted the week I was planning to take late Oct. early Nov. for the rut. That still burns me. But anyway, this is the deal.

My brother-in-law finds a guide he thinks is top notch at the Outdoorama at the Novi Expo a year ago. The guy gives him the whole pitch, 80% success rate, as long as you do your part you'll get one sort of thing. He also pitched as I may be a little more expensive (his was $1,300 which included no food or licenses)than the others and further away than the others, but the amount of bears and size of bears it was worth it he says.

We show up, cross the border, do the paperwork, no snags. We show up to the camp. Pretty dumpy but no big deal, we weren't there for the accomadations, we were there for bear. Walt, the owner(same guy at the expo) is there as we check in, pretty much just making sure we pay up. Guy gets our money and pretty much turned into an instant ahole. A bunch of stuff he promised like a motor for fishing he pretty much said screw you, you Detroit maggots ain't gonna wreck one of my motors. I am running on here. Long story short. At the pre-hunt meeting, his story changed from 80% success rate to 30% success rate(after he had our money). He wouldn't anwer the hunters in our camps questions regarding how the previous three weeks of hunting was at his camp. Bad sign.

There were 20 guys in our camp. About 12 were from the Detroit area (we all got suckered at the Outdoorama). We were the fourth week out of a total of five weeks he books. The guy obviously overbooks his hunts, but we found this out after the fact. I know, we made the mistake by booking the fourth week, but the success rate of the other weeks didn't sound any better. Out of the 20 guys that hunted for the week, three guys saw a bear, two of which were harvested. One might as well have been a cub, and the other a respectable 300lb or so. Two out of twenty is a joke. The bears weren't even hitting the bait. We all hunted from 3pm to about 9pm. In 30 hours of hunting, the highligt was watching ground squirrels.

Just about everyone in camp was pretty unhappy about the whole experience, and most didn't even stick around to hunt on Friday, trying to salvage something out of a wasted week. There was not a single repeat hunter in the whole group. I know I am coming accross as a whiner, but you had to be there. This wasn't a thing were it was just a bad week, this place was just a joke. If anyone is planning a black bear hunt in Canada, I can tell you one place to stay away from. My question is this, Is this hunt sound like the typical crap that you can expect at a lot of these places, or are there a lot of quality ones out there. What has been your experience?

[kingfisher 11]

You hit the nail right on the head when it comes to planning a guided hunt. The fear of getting ripped off. And in my case the loss of the week vacation time.

I have heard of expensive hunts and cheap hunt ripoffs.
The more you hunt with guides the better gut feeling you get when you start looking for guides. This does not mean you can't get ripped off. Fortunately I started going on guided hunts with some seasoned hunters. They taught me quite a bit. Those outfitters can sure do a good sales job.

I was involved in a rip off hunt in Sask. in 1999. I went with a different guide in 2000. The difference was night in day. I will be going back for the third time this year with the same guide.

My suggestion is to talk with people you know. A guide can always give you referrals. Of course they might be his relatives.

Look for a guide with a waiting list or take the chance of a new guide who is starting out. Get in on the ground floor and repeat hunt with him. Of course there is still a risk there to.

The worst thing about Canada..... the requirement to hunt with a guide.

don't feel to bad, it can be a roll of the dice. It sure gives the good outfitters a bad rap. Look for hunter reviews on websites. I like to offer some of my experiences with outfitters here. Even recommend them, but I get in trouble doing that.

[Dangler]

That's a sad story. Don't apologize for whining. It's word-of-mouth, first hand accounts like yours that help other hunters weed out the bad outfitters when planning their hunt of a lifetime (if you were to name names).

Always check references before booking. Ask the outfitter for the names and numbers of successful and unsuccessful hunters. Talk to some of these guys and have a list of questions prepared. Take notes.

If you take the outfitter's word alone, it's "buyer beware", just like everything else in a competitive market.

I've booked 1 guided whitetail hunt in Illinois. I did a ton of research and made a lot of phone calls before I sent a check. I knew exactly what to expect before I got to the lodge. My buddy has made 2 bear hunts with the same Canada guide during the last 2 years and is going there again next year.

Sorry you got taken. Shop around a bit, do some homework and you'll find a better experience.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I guess I have been pretty lucky....all my hunting and fishing trips have pretty much been what I was expecting. Dangler brings up a good point...ask for UNSUCCESSFULL references as well as successful ones; if the guide does everything he is suppose to, he should have no problem with giving this information. If he does, it should send up a red flag! Sometimes weather, disease, ect will work against a guide when it comes to filling tags or seeing game. This is in no way the guides fault, and should be noted as such. Spend some money on phone calls, even if they are long distance....it will pay dividends in the long run. When talking to unsuccessful clients, ask why they were unsuccessful: did the guide do everything he/she could to put you on game? Where you ready (physically & mentally) to be up to the challenge, ect.
Make sure you and your potential guide know up front what you are looking for: will you settle on a doe if a buck is unavailable? Will you be happy with an "average rack" or "average bear", or will nothing short of a boone & crockett record make you happy? Some guides will guide ONLY for record book animals, and thier prices reflect this....they also tend to have lower success rates for obvious reasons. Others expect you to be happy with an average rack. Make sure this is discussed up front.
As for "80% success rates", ect.....dig a little deeper. I was talking to a moose outfitter in Ontario who was bragging about his "80% success rate", which on the surface looked great. A little more digging and I found out that he was only allowed by the fish and game dept to take 10 moose out of his area, and only two of those were allowed to be bulls; the rest had to be cows or calves. His "80%" quickly dropped to "20%", since I was only willing to take a bull.
The North American Hunting Club used to offer a service to it's members where you could inquire about different outfitters and see if reports filled out by other hunters with respect to the guides lodging, hunting area, if they offered what was promised, ect. Maybe something like that could be set up on this site, where you could type in an outfitters name and see if any complaints were made against him by members of this site. I think I would also complain to MUCC with re: to what Buckmaster has posted. If they receive similar complaints, they may not allow him to come back to Outdoorama. It seems that a lot of Ontario hunting & fishing guides (from what I have heard and read) are more interested in taking advantage of the American dollar than offering thier clients what they promise. While I am sure that there are good guides in Ontario that work hard to get thier fishermen & hunters thier game, I haven't personally heard of any lately. I wonder if when the Ontario govt banned the spring season, all the hard working guides said "to hell with it", and all that is left is the chaff?
Finally, word of mouth is great, and I usually try and plan my hunts a full 2 years in advance in order to get all my ducks in a row. Good luck with your next trip!

[mich buckmaster]

I have never been on a paid hunt yet, but a few small hunts with people who have already been there, but we did our research for an up and coming event this fall. We booked our hunt through Cabelas Outdoors and we have had nothing but great service so far. They do everything for you and pretty much put their name to the outfitter. I did some real research and I dont think you can go wrong going through a hunting consultant. Just might pay more for a Cabelas trip.

[kingfisher 11]

My worst trip was though a well known consultant.

Asking for unsuccessful hunters is a must. But also remember, just as there are bad outfitters, some hunters are jerks.

Last year our outfitter's success was actually 7 for 8 if you consider the deer my dad hit and lost. The other guy who did not tag a buck was such a jerk. He has since went all over the web bad mouthing the outfitter. Funny thing, his wife and buddy took the biggest deer of the year and his wife basically got a free hunt. It sure did not help, when he came into camp and said to the outfitter "hey Chief, where is the whisky and dice" (the outfitter and guides were Indians) He was a real jerk to all at camp. I have found if you treat them well, they will do the little extras just to make your hunt more enjoyable.

I believe the Mosquito Reservation (Saskatchewan) hunt is through Cabelas. In 2000 my friend flew back with two guys who left the place on the second day because they were being shot at by the local Indians. Hopefully having the booking agent helped recoup the cost of the hunt. In my case they did nothing.

[Eastern Yooper]

I went on my first outfitted hunt this past fall for elk in Wyoming.

I spent nearly two years researching different states, types of hunts (drop camps, ranch accomodations versus backcountry wall tents, etc.). I spent the most time checking into outfitters and contacting references.

Two things are worth remembering: #1) You get what you pay for, and #2) If it sounds too goo to be true, it probably is.

My experience was a good and positive one. Not only did the outfitter deliver above and beyond what I expected, I also shot an elk.

And above all, never forget that no matter what: It is still hunting. Declaring the "success" of an outfitted hunt based solely on a kill is a poor way to gauge the entire experience. Having said that, it also pays to be leery of ANY outfitter until references and the state board of outfitters are contacted. There are too many rip-off operations out there taking advantage of folks.

Be aware....... and beware.

[Banditto]

One thing I would do is make a point of telling your story to the Michigan Outdoorama organizers. Many times they don't get the full story and they can put pressure on outfitters to straighten their act up. Seriously, I would get a hold of them and give them an ear full.

[Banditto]

BTW what is the name of that outfitter? My guys are thinking of booking a hunt... and we don't want to get burned.

[Biggbear]

My Brother and I just booked a hunt throught a guy I met at Outdoorama. I asked all the suggested questions and tried to be selective but I hope I didn't just book a nightmare!

[Aspen Hill Adventures]

Kingfisher II, your agent should have done something for you if your experience was bad. When choosing an agency make sure it is one that has been in business a long time. Ask them if they have hunted with a particular outfitter or seen his camps. Find out hom many of his clients have returned to hunt with a particular outfitter. Same thing with an outfitter, get the successful and unsuccessful hunter's references. I can tell you that sometimes an brand new outfitter can give you the best hunt. That happend for me when I tried a new guy out for caribou, he delivered. Those new guys are hungry and want your business.

Many of the long time outfitters are higher priced because they have been around a long time and have the reputation to go with it. Most of their bookings are repeat clients. Most of them are good. You might be better off just saving your cash a little longer and paying a little more to go with a reputable outfitter.

There are also long time operators out there here in the USA and Canada who just don't care anymore and will tell you anything to get your money. That was the reason I did not go to Quebec for caribou or black bear. Lax attitude towards Americans. A good booking agency will know who to send you with. They are the ones who will lose customers if they don't send you somewhere that is top notch. Perhaps there are big name agents that don't care either. They'll lose in the long run. Agents get paid from the outfitters they represent. Keeping a bad outfitter to book for is not profitable.

If I get drawn for a moose tag in New Brunswick I'm going with a brand new guy.

The trend is for States and other countries to only allow non-residents go on guided hunts. This is going to become more the norm as time goes on. It's here to stay.

But buyer beware, if you book a budget hunt you're gonna get a budget hunt. You can't blame the outfitter or the agent for that. It's easy to run searches to compare outfitter's prices. If you see the averyage guy in an area is charging $3000 for a lion hunt and you find a guy advertising his cats at $1500 that ought to ring a bell. Either he has no lions or his hounds can't run a track in the snow.

Hunters also need to be aware of their own limitations. You want to book a horseback elk hunt but you don't know how to ride a horse. Not a good idea. You won't have fun. You have a medical condition or an old injury that prevents you from a long days' climb up to that trophy goat's favorite mountain top. Your outfitter sprints up there like he is half goat and you cannot keep up. Hunters that can't hit the broad side of a barn. Ya better get some range time in and practice shooting from various positions. Better know your gun and your scope. I've seen plenty or guys out there who buy huge caliber, show off guns that they have been kicked hard with, then they keep missing game their guide puts in front of them.

Best thing to do is always get a contract, nothing better than getting everything in writing.

[kingfisher 11]

Ann, I have mentined the booking agent before. He was one of the agents you and I discussed in the soundoff African hunt ad. He mentioned he would try to get me a return hunt discounted. I heard they had a falling out. Then I read later they were representing them again. I never did get a return call from them.

My 2000 hunt in Sask. was with a new whitetail outfitter. I will be hunting with him for the 3rd time now in Nov.

I ran across a young guy in Kansas who offers semi guided muzzleloader/rifle and archery hunts. He just started guiding last year for whitetails. I am very happy with him, his prices are very reasonable. He has a deal where the first four days are semi guided with room and board. After that you can hunt the rest of the year on your own, on his 3200 acres until you tag out. He guides just enough hunters to pay the lease fee and cost. which is about 10 hunters per year.
I plan to take my son there this year. What is neat about him, if you try muzzleloader season and you don't tag out. Then you can hunt his place for rifle season with the same tag. He can also get you the tag at cost if you don't draw.


I found all of these hunts by asking questions and surfing the internet. As most have stated, do the homework.

If anyone is interested in any of these hunts I can give you there telephone numbers. Just PM if you want.

It would be great if we could list spot for outfitter reviews.

[Tim Baker]

I have been on two guided hunts, one for bear in Wyoming and the other was for deer in Kansas. I never saw a single bear on the Wyoming trip but I had a great time and I was offered another hunt for free by the outfitter at the end of the hunt. I thought the guy did everything that was expected of an outfitter and sometimes the animals just don’t show up. The outfitter in Kansas was a drunk and didn’t know a thing about bowhunting and it’s basically my fault that I didn’t figure that out before I went.

Since the Kansas deer hunt my brother and I do our hunts on our own. We have been very successful the last two years doing it on our own and I think in the end you will get a LOT more satisfaction than going with a guide.

Tim

[Buckmaster Flash]

Thanks for all the input. I guess you gotta do more homework than we did. One of the guys in our group did call a few of the references and they were positive, but like one of you posted, it could be a relative or something. Glad we learned the lesson on a $1,300 hunt rather than a $5,000 hunt. I left out a lot of stuff that would have showed what kind of rotten SOB the owner was, and it didn't have anything to do with not seeing any bears.

My brother-in-law is talking about going thru Cabela's or an agent for the next trip. I am in no hurry to do another one real soon. I plan on researching the hell out of the next hunt so that not being successful was on account of weather or something rather than because the outfitter takes a 100 hunters a year for an area where the bear population can maybe handle 20 hunters a year. Next time I will inquire on this site for some specific recommendations. So other's don't get ripped off, the name of the place I went is Fleming's Black Bear Camp in Jellicoe, Ontario. They also run fishing in the summer under the name of Sturgeon River Outfitters. Don't know much about the fishing, but all you need to know is who the owner is.

I just saw their advertisement in the March issue of Woodsnwater (page90), that just pissed me off seeing it. It advertises bear/fishing/grouse. If the place has anything worth a crap it is probably grouse, because driving to an from our blinds, we saw grouse roaming on the side of the road on numerous occassions. There was a lot of newer growth forest in the area. But that still would mean you would have to put up with that SOB Walt. Anyhow, here is a link of a site that has outfitter reviews that I have found. The problem with this site is the same as the references, it could be the outfitter giving himself a rave review. At least it is one more source. Having something like this on this site would be helpful.

http://www.huntinfo.com/reviews/outfitter_reviews.php3?sort=state&state_filter=&outfitter_search=&submit_action=Go

[Aspen Hill Adventures]

Buckmaster, I had an inkling you were talking about Flemings.

[Buckmaster Flash]

I am assuming you are familiar with them because my experience is more the norm than the exception there. What have you heard about them?

[Buckmaster Flash]

I just did a quick look at your site. What do you do to make sure guides aren't like the one we went with. I bookmarked your site, and when we decide to do a hunt I will keep your site in mind.

[Michigan Hunter]

I have been on two guided hunts. First was Montana and fairly good considering the guy I went with had been there a couple times before. The second I wanted Elk. Started checking references on some hunts and finally looked at Cabala Hunts. Booked an Elk hunt in Colorado through them. It was a dream! They checked with me and helped in every way. I didn't score tho (it was archery and didn't get a close enough shot) but saw 150 elk and 50 mule deer. I was well satisfied with the hunt. Food was excellent, guides were excellent and housing was excellent. One day after I got home, Cabala called and asked how I enjoyed the hunt and asked if they could help further. They were sorry I never scored but I said I loved the hunt. Cost was a bit higher but well worth it.

[Dangler]

Here's another piece of the guided hunt puzzle. On my whitetail hunt with the Illinois outfitter, the only guys to get shots at big bucks were the 3 elderly gentlemen who were experienced in guided hunts and made it clear that they had a lot of cash.

One of the guys missed "a monster", the other two got a 160-class 8-pointer and a 170-class 11-pointer from the outfitter's largest and most established piece of property.

The other 8 younger guys in camp, who could barely afford to be there, got sent to newer pieces of property that the outfitter leased. We got 2 scrub 8-point racks among us, and those were the biggest bucks we saw.

The night before we left, my buddy and I pulled our guide aside to give him our tip. We asked him about the possibility that the outfitter made sure that the big money got the big bucks. He said he had suspected the same thing but didn't want to say so. He was a real good guy and I honestly believe that he didn't play a role in any BS (he no longer works for that outfitter).

Could have just been coincidence, but I suspect that some got preferred treatment, while some others were shat upon.

[Aspen Hill Adventures]

Buckmaster, let's just say I'd NEVER send a client of mine to them. There are a few people who do claim to have a good hunt at his camp, but the majority of the info is very negative. Reputaions can be lost quite eaily.

Most of the outfitters were represent have been visited or hunted with by myself or my Boss. Meaning we see their set up, their area and the game they have to offer. We also experience how they treat the client while on a hunt. Three of my newer outfitters were taken on after I hunted with them, they did not know I was a booking agent until I concluded my hunt so as not to get preferential treatment. I prefer to operate that way. I have booked clients to places I have never seen personally but not many. Research and reputation proved their place to be good. I can't afford to hunt with them all but I try to see them when I can. I don't handle large numbers of outfitters, just enough to cover a variety of species in NA and other countries. All of my African outfitters I have hunted with. This summer I am going to check out a few other operations in some African countries I have not been to.

I have a new guy in New Brunswick I am going to hunt with this fall if I get a moose permit, otherwise I'll see him next spring for a black bear.

Dangler did you ask the outfitter if he had different prices for trophy class and or management bucks on his land? Many of them do that.

The bottom line is I do everything I can to make sure a client is matched up with an outfitter I know can do the job. If my client has a good hunt he will be back again for something else. Don't confuse that with meaning he can promise you're gonna shoot something. That cannot be guarenteed with free range hunts.

[Tim Baker]

Dangler, no coincidence, my brother had the same type of experience with an outfitter a few years ago on a bear hunt in Saskatchewan. Him and a buddy shared a camp with three other guys, one of the other gentleman and his son who appeared to have much more money than my brother received better treatment. The owner and his daughter guide him and his son; they were picked up first after the evening hunts and they usually saw more bears.

Tim

[Dangler]

AHA, there was no difference in price for any particular class of buck. No penalties for shooting a small buck, no guarantees on any of the free-ranging trophies. I specifically asked about that, and the outfitter's response was "You paid a lot of money to be here with one tag, so shoot any deer you want."

[Brock]

I went on my first hunting trip last fall in Western Ontario. It was an Archery Moose hunting trip. I didn't get a moose, but I did have a great time and did see quite a few. I got an incredible B&C class bull on video and was able to get him to 60 yards. I also had a cow and a bull trot by me, 8 feet away, while hunting on the ground in a clear cut. I messed up, it's still to painfull to think about that mistake. But, it was a great trip and I plan on going back, this time with a rifle!

[stevebrandle]

Bottom line; Ya Get what ya pay for. (usually) I'd advise anyone to take their first trophies with a rifle and then back off to archery equipment. Don't set the bar too high when dollars mean a lot.