English national language

[MOduckdoc]

Yesterday the senate voted to make English the official language of the United States of America. I say good for us. The polls show that 85% of all Americans support this move. That 85% is probably representative of the people on this forum. So my question is, since both US senators from MI voted against English as our official language and they obviously could care a less how their constituents feel about an attempt to keep our country strong and soveriegn, are any of you ever going to vote for either of these clowns again?

[RichP]

No. ¡No tengo gusto de el que llaman Ben Franklin!

[Brown duck]

I think that instead of naming an official language, we should learn to use the one which we are considering: to many of us don't talk it to good!

I moved from Michigan to Arkansas (for school), and am convinced that there is no one universal language (and many of our local colloquialisms aren't any better than theirs)!

p.s. You'll notice that some Republicans are against the matter, along with MI's Senators (Viva Levin!)

[Bwana]

Yesterday the senate voted to make English the official language of the United States of America. I say good for us. The polls show that 85% of all Americans support this move. That 85% is probably representative of the people on this forum. So my question is, since both US senators from MI voted against English as our official language and they obviously could care a less how their constituents feel about an attempt to keep our country strong and soveriegn, are any of you ever going to vote for either of these clowns again?

Not exactly MOduckdoc. You have to really watch these jokers closely to understand what they are doing. Right after they voted to make English the official language, they voted to make English a "common and unifying language." So now there are two competing standards that effectively cloud the intention of Congress. They are probably hoping for one of two things: First, that one of the Amendments will get stripped out in conference Committee (Gee, I wonder which one) or they will leave both intact and effectively "punt" to the Courts for clarification (and I wonder what the activist Judges will decide). Either way, they were on record for voting to make English the Official Language and can tout that at election time to appear like they have done the right thing. Really sad if you ask me.

Article Quote:

"WASHINGTON (AP) - Whether English is America's "national language" or its national "common and unifying language" was a question dominating the Senate immigration debate.
The Senate first voted 63-34 to make English the national language after lawmakers who led the effort said it would promote national unity.

But critics argued the move would prevent limited English speakers from getting language assistance required by an executive order enacted under President Clinton. So the Senate also voted 58-39 to make English the nation's "common and unifying language."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060519/D8HMT8C80.html

[Big Frank 25]

What language is used when giving the oath of citizenship?

[fishlkmich]

While it’s a nice gesture for Congress to add an amendment to this bill making English the national language, it still doesn’t do anything to deter illegal immigration. Our members of Congress voted against making English the national language, but voted for making it the common language. 2611 is going to be a bad bill no matter what. I wouldn’t make a decision about who to vote for, or not to vote for, based upon votes on this single amendment. Just because we would have a “national language” if this isn’t stripped from the final bill (assuming there ever is one) won’t mean that you won’t have to still push 1 for English when you call the local power company or Target. If Levin and Stabenow vote for 2611 when all of the amendments are added that will convince me to vote them out.

[Big Frank 25]

What language is used when giving the oath of citizenship?

Naturalization applicants must establish that they meet all the requirements for naturalization, including the demonstration of the applicant’s residence, physical presence in the United States, good moral character, understanding of and attachment to the fundamental principles of the Constitution of the United States, ability to read, write and speak English, and other qualifications to become a naturalized citizen as required by law.

In 1994, Section 108 of the Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994 (INTCA), Public Law 103-416, amended section 312 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Act) to provide a waiver of the English and civics requirements for applicants with disabilities. (http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/handbook/PolMem96Pub.pdf)

[Ogre]

Yesterday the senate voted to make English the official language of the United States of America. I say good for us. The polls show that 85% of all Americans support this move. That 85% is probably representative of the people on this forum. So my question is, since both US senators from MI voted against English as our official language and they obviously could care a less how their constituents feel about an attempt to keep our country strong and soveriegn, are any of you ever going to vote for either of these clowns again?


This is not a pro or con stance that I am taking on behalf of our Michigan US senators this is a question of why someone from MO is calling our Michigan Senators clowns. Regardless of their stance on this one particular issue others may feel that their votes and activities adequately represent Michigan's interests and don't warrant the name calling. I'm not saying that I am one of these supporters and I don't have enough facts on the specific language involved to have an informed decision on what is transpiring in this specific instance but what is your interest, in this name calling, outside of your state of residence? Do you represent a specific interest or have a specific agenda? I don't mean to be offensive but curious minds want to know.

[eddiejohn4]

H-ll I thought that it always was, since all of the signs on the roads, on our money .on the face of court buildings etc etc etc is in english!, then what should we do print everything in every language known to man ! this liberal BS has got to stop. this is a nation of english speaking citizens ,you come here learn our language, dont give me no bs how we should adapt to you. we are not going to have our road signs in chineese ,vietmaneese, japaneese, german polish, galic, spanish, arabic, get the point on how silly this nation has become by allowing the fruit and nuts of this land to have their way.

[Munsterlndr]

This is not a pro or con stance that I am taking on behalf of our Michigan US senators this is a question of why someone from MO is calling our Michigan Senators clowns. Regardless of their stance on this one particular issue others may feel that their votes and activities adequately represent Michigan's interests and don't warrant the name calling. I'm not saying that I am one of these supporters and I don't have enough facts on the specific language involved to have an informed decision on what is transpiring in this specific instance but what is your interest, in this name calling, outside of your state of residence? Do you represent a specific interest or have a specific agenda? I don't mean to be offensive but curious minds want to know.

Fine, I'll do it instead. I'm a resident of Michigan and both Levin & Stabenow are clowns. There, happy? :lol:

( I actually would have come up with a little bit stronger language than "clowns" but this is, after all, a family site.)

He can call our politicians anything he wants. He better not start commenting on our Deer management policies, though. :D

[Munsterlndr]

H-ll I thought that it always was, since all of the signs on the roads, on our money .on the face of court buildings etc etc etc is in english!

"Annuit Coeptis" "Novus Ordo Seclorum" and "E Pluribis Unum" are English? :)

(for those that are interested the Latin translations are "He has favored our undertakings" "A new order for the ages" and "Out of many, one")

[Ranger Ray]

Jackass of the day:
http://reid.senate.gov/photos/officialphoto1.jpg

Jackass quote of the day:
"I really believe this amendment is racist."

[eddiejohn4]

No but in GOD WE TRUST IS :D , the other is latin. and I dont remember our street signs being in latin either

[dtg]

As long as Detroit and that big SHI#stain in the drawers of MI. that goes into the NorthWest of Detroit that ends in Traverse City feel that the Dems can do better, SNAFU will be the norm in this state. Although, some of what I thought to be Republican reps have NOT voted the way I thought they would, so I'm not sure if either party really gives 2 craps for the REAL American voting people more than the potential voting majority of who's been invading the country for decades. This State will be Democrat as long as you don't need to show an id to vote. But that doesn't mean that I think the GOP will do any better regarding the border or budget. Clearly a message needs to be sent to the current leaders of the Free world, both Cons & lib.

This country is losing a war that is being fought without firing a single shot and PC is the weapon of Mass destruction. The media refuses to recognize "Illegal Aliens" , by conveniently(cleverly) confusing them with "immigrants" in their reporting as are the polititians, BUSH included. Seeing how in his speech he decidedly called them Illegal "immigrants" instead of Aliens. These people are NOT immigrants, nor do they wish to become Americans. They simply want the benefits of a Country that can give them what they desire without citizenship, only to send the rewards of their efforts back to the country they seem to be so proud of, yet fear protesting in or desire to make better.

I'm of English/Irish heritege, but you won't find either of THOSE flags in or near my house nor rallying behind them before the USA.

[eddiejohn4]

I have to agree with you! these are not immigrants they are illegal. Its time to vote them out and start fresh.

[2PawsRiver]

Fine, I'll do it instead. I'm a resident of Michigan and both Levin & Stabenow are clowns. There, happy?

( I actually would have come up with a little bit stronger language than "clowns" but this is, after all, a family site.)


My thoughts exactly:)

[wolverinerick]

Fine, I'll do it instead. I'm a resident of Michigan and both Levin & Stabenow are clowns. There, happy? :lol:

( I actually would have come up with a little bit stronger language than "clowns" but this is, after all, a family site.)

He can call our politicians anything he wants. He better not start commenting on our Deer management policies, though. :DIt is amazing that with all the crap going on in this conservative controlled country and state that you can still belittle the people in the minority that can do nothing to stop the neo-cons and all there tax cuts for the wealthy and the run up of the huge deficits.

[Munsterlndr]

It is amazing that with all the crap going on in this conservative controlled country and state that you can still belittle the people in the minority that can do nothing to stop the neo-cons and all there tax cuts for the wealthy and the run up of the huge deficits.

No, not amazing at all, in fact it's pretty simple. Levin has a long legislative record to look at, including a significant number of years while being in the majority. He is a classic liberal who panders to the labor unions. Stabenow is just a joke.

My complaint with the tax cuts is that there have been too few of them. We need to continue to lower taxes and drive the economy. Even JFK realized the benefits of lower tax rates. The deficits are primarily resulting from the war. Can you name a time when we have been engaged in a major war and not been in a deficit spending situation? Now, having said that I would have liked to have seen the Administration cut a lot of the useless spending that occurs in this country. Our budget continues to be bloated with pork, regardless of who the majority party is. But you are delusional if you think that a democratically controlled congress is going to spend less money on social programs and government subsidies, which is where a tremendous amount of our money is spent.

[Nu_2_MI]

I am just curious, simply because I literally do not know, but has there ever been a time in our history where big tax cuts were given during a time of war? If not, what does this say of the wisdom of pursuing an obviously destructive practice. During times of war people must sacrifice. If ya want the war so badly, you should be willing to sacrifice some taxes at the very least. If we want so badly to pursue the war on terror which will take forever, then you should be willing to pay higher taxes forever. We gotta pay for it somehow. CAreful what ya wish for.

We went into the war thinking, according to administration estimates, that the war would cost 2 billion dollars and the rest could be recouped by oil profits....ROFLMAO.....Yeah!!! Meanwhile we have skyrocketing deficits and we borrow from Communist China....whatever happened to Fiscal Responsibility.

[eddiejohn4]

The tax cuts are driving this economy, which by the way is in fine shape no matter how some want to twist this. Munster is absolutly on when stating that the deficit is a war time stat.

[Nu_2_MI]

So let me check the score here real quick. During the economic boom of Clinton's years it was because of economic cycles.....not anything he did. A decent economy during the Bush years are entirely his doing. Aint it funny how that works.:evil:

[eddiejohn4]

Nu I think Clinton did a great job with the economy! but the tax cuts are driving the economy now, by creating more spending. The only problem I had with Clinton was his foreign policies. (Somalia, WTC ATTACK 1, ETC)

[Munsterlndr]

So let me check the score here real quick. During the economic boom of Clinton's years it was because of economic cycles.....not anything he did. A decent economy during the Bush years are entirely his doing. Aint it funny how that works.:evil:

A large part of the boom that was experienced during the Clinton years was due to a tremendous expansion of the stock market, spurred by Dot Com mania. Clinton should neither take the credit for the boom or take the blame for the bust when the Dot Coms crashed. I would agree that the amount of credit and/or blame that a President can take is rather limited. Economic cycles usually take longer to produce an impact, either positive or negative, than one term in office. Two terms probably does allow enough time for a president to cause an impact on the state of the economy, but again that impact is probably minimal.

[eddiejohn4]

A president time in office does not reflect the shape of the economy at that time ,but policies set forth, however do in the long run. The economy is cyclic.

[MOduckdoc]

This is not a pro or con stance that I am taking on behalf of our Michigan US senators this is a question of why someone from MO is calling our Michigan Senators clowns. Regardless of their stance on this one particular issue others may feel that their votes and activities adequately represent Michigan's interests and don't warrant the name calling. I'm not saying that I am one of these supporters and I don't have enough facts on the specific language involved to have an informed decision on what is transpiring in this specific instance but what is your interest, in this name calling, outside of your state of residence? Do you represent a specific interest or have a specific agenda? I don't mean to be offensive but curious minds want to know.

I call them clowns because they are, as many of your fellow Michiganders have agreed and backed me on. My interest in who you vote for in your state to represent you is completely selfish. It is because I love being an American and I love living free. I feel that every chance I get to preach about our freedoms and how to keep them needs to be grabbed ahold of by me and put forth every chance I get. The reality is many people that vote for dems are just sheep who have never opened their eyes to their own free thinking. They follow blindly what they are spoon fed to them by the liberal media, their liberal teachers/professors, their unions.

Who Michigan picks as there senators is important to my freedom because they account for 2 votes in the US Senate and in many cases 1 vote is all that it takes to protect freedom.

I am not affiliated with any groups other than Ducks Unlimited and our local boy's and girl's club. As I stated my interest is purely selfish, because I want my children and grandchildren to remain free and any democrat that has a vote on the national level is a threat to those freedoms. The real battle is the preservation of America.

[eyecatcher]

Anyone calling our sentors clowns is doing great disservice to the clowns of the world. There is nothing funny about this pair of fools. how and why they were ever elected is beyond me. I guess the voters in this state are dumber then I thought possible but then they have reelected that fool in detroit. Shame on us for having these
semi-morons representing us and shame on all of us for allowing this government to get this far out of hand.

[fishin' fin]

I guess the voters in this state are dumber then I thought possible but then they have reelected that fool in detroit. Shame on us
Exactly like the fool in D.C. or Texas ...whatever. It says something about the American people.:tsk:



[QUOTE=EDDIE j] The tax cuts are driving this economy. [QUOTE]



You know smoking dope is illegal marine.....right?:16suspect

[MOduckdoc]

Fin,

I am not saying President Bush has been all that I wanted him to be or expected, but he is a damn sight better than what Kerry would have been. Did you vote for one or both of your states US Senators? I expect you are a follower that did and are truly unable to contribute to a legitimate discussion concerning what is actually good for America, because of your inability to think for yourself.

[fishlkmich]

MO,

Your opinions are just that, opinions. I seriously doubt that you have a political science degree, or anything close to it. Because you have tunnel vision and believe that the only good politician is a republican politician it would be much easier to color you a “follower” and say that you have no ability to think for yourself. It makes it a lot easier to just walk in to vote, punch a republican ticket and walk out. You cannot grasp the basic balance of power and checks and balances concept. By calling for a single party you are aligning yourself with a government that is very close to or could virtually become a socialist or communist form of government. Talk about a sheep! It is easy to see just how much damage has been caused by a republican legislative and executive branch of government at the federal level for a mere six years.

Just what did you want or expect from Bush? Did you want or expect him to be able to pronounce simple words like nuclear? Did you want him to be able to express his beliefs and ideals coherently? The man is an idiot. It is plain as day. To expect him to perform simple tasks would be asking a lot.

How much worse off do you think that we would be if Gore had won the Electoral College vote? He did win the popular vote. Do you think that we would be worse off because we would not have spent billions of dollars per month and lost thousands of lives fighting in some sand pit on the other side of the world? Do you think that we would be worse off because our environment would have been protected, instead of reversing years of work toward protecting the environment for your children and grandchildren? Do you think that we would be worse off because we wouldn’t have a skyrocketing budget that is unprecedented and will be handed down to your children and grandchildren to pay off? Your idea of a republican led legislative and executive branch that is out of control has been here doing irreparable damage and you can’t even see it, much less think for yourself.

You speak of freedom, yet your chosen party actually offers less freedom to the people of this nation than the Democratic Party. If the republicans had their way your female children and grandchildren would not have the freedom to choose to have an abortion if they were raped.

If the republicans have it their way for much longer your children and grandchildren won’t have the freedom to breathe clean air and fish in clean water. Business comes before the environment for your Republican Party and the list of offences to our environment for the past six years would fill an entire page here. Your children and grandchildren deserve the freedom to enjoy a clean environment.

Your children and grandchildren should enjoy the freedom to not have to pay for the trillions of dollars of debt that the Republican Party is passing along to them.

Your republican president is demanding Congress to pass a bill which will allow approximately 66 million “immigrants” into this country during the lifetime of your children. The first step is giving the ones that are here illegally right now amnesty. Is that the freedom that you want?

Please back up your contention that democrats are somehow against some imagined freedoms that you have. I am genuinely interested in this. Please provide resources to prove your allegations. Opinions are worthless in “a legitimate discussion concerning what is actually good for America” and opinions are all that you offer (with the exception of insults).

[MOduckdoc]

As I said earlier "W" has made mistakes. For you to call him an idiot is rediculous. He graduated Harvard and Yale. Sorry to tell you this, but there is not a silver spoon big enough to allow you to graduate from those schools even with a "c" average.

As far as my blindly following the republican party in my 26 years of voting I have pulled the straight republican ticket one time. How does your percentage of straight ticket democrat voting compare. I am looking into running for state senator here in MO. I will not be running on the GOP side of the ballot. I am talking with the people of the Constitutional party. I support GOP candidates genearlly because they are more conservative than most dem's could ever dream of being. I have voted for dem's for senate, gov, and reps and many local positions. However this is becoming less and less frequent as it is becoming almost impossible to find a progun dem.

My degree is indeed not in Poli-sci, never have claimed to be so. I am just sick and tired of seeing so many people blindly following dem's so often.
As an example my ex mother in-law living in Port Huron that was antiblack, antigay, prolife, progun told me once that "If Jesus Christ himself came down and ran for President on the republican ticket she would vote democrat, because that is what the union tells them is best for them". This is a very common mind set that I have seen for many years amongst democratic voters. I just find it a shame.

As far as illegal immigrants goes with our president, I hope he is held accountable for all of his mistakes. There is an invasion going on in the southwest region of our country and he may very well be guilty of treason by just standing by and allowing it. He took an oath to protect the United States of America and so far he has done so by stopping terrorism from the middle east since 9/11, but his allowing this illegal immigration may end up being just as destructive in just a few years to come. Oh yeah I am mad as hell about this issue.

As far as Gore goes.... Jeesh I hate to even think about what would be happening in this country today if he had actaully been able to steal that election. Probably would have had an economy worse than what Jimmy Carter gave which Ronald Raegan had to come in and save. We would have almost ceratinly been hit more than once on our soil by middle eastern terrorists. He would not have taken the fight to the middle east as he has no such stomach for real leadership. We need to create demorcay in the middle east in order to have some hope for a terror free America. Once people over there start getting a real taste of freedom they will want more of it and so will their neighbors. People that are successful and free are signifigantly less likely to commit terrorism and be more understanding and tolerant of other cultures and religions. By reducing totalitariasm you will reduce fanaticism as well. Extremes in any direction leads to blindness and rage, never a good combination.

I wish I had more time. I think we might be able to agree on some subjects concerning environment and such. I just hope you grow to prioritize.

Freedom first.

[fishlkmich]

It was a C- by his own admission (and from what I can tell he must have had some help to get that!).:rolleyes:

And remember what President George W. Bush told a group of graduates in 2001: "To all the C-students, I say, you too can be president of the United States."

[MOduckdoc]

It was a C- by his own admission (and from what I can tell he must have had some help to get that!).:rolleyes:

And remember what President George W. Bush told a group of graduates in 2001: "To all the C-students, I say, you too can be president of the United States."


That's all you have to say? C vs C-, maybe we would agree on even less than what I thought we might, because obviously you are way out there. Good luck in life.

[fishlkmich]

Actually, I was laughing so hard that I just left it at that. I figured that if someone was going to run for office that they should know the name of the party that they will be running under. Here is a link to the CONSTITUTION Party thread that ran a short life:
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138790

I wasn’t impressed with the party and neither were others.

It sounds like we agree on environment.

I wouldn’t want a democrat run executive and legislative branch any more than I like what we have now. But, I doubt that they would take your gun away. There’s that darn Constitution in the way, ya know.

I could play the what if game on the Gore issue, too. We wouldn’t be in Iraq and borrowing to spend. There is no proof that this administration has stopped a single terrorist attack and if it had that’s all that Bush would smirk about for months. The economy was fantastic when the democrat run executive branch put spending control on the republican Congress for eight years. I don’t believe in crystal balls, though.

Your serve.

[Ranger Ray]

There’s that darn Constitution in the way, ya know.
Tell that to the people that USED to own hand guns in SF. :lol:

San Francisco Approves Gun, Military Recruiting Ban

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/9/80901.shtml

[fishlkmich]

Just where in the Constitution does it say that a municipality cannot allow its people to pass a local ordinance?

"With all precincts reporting early Wednesday, 58 percent of voters backed the proposed gun ban while 42 percent opposed it."

This was simply another strange event in SF. I would expect things like this to happen there. Ballot initiatives can be started by anyone.

I am also sure that you are aware that there is a lawsuit to have this overturned.

The second amendment is not going away. Don't worry.

[Munsterlndr]

It was a C- by his own admission (and from what I can tell he must have had some help to get that!).:rolleyes:

And remember what President George W. Bush told a group of graduates in 2001: "To all the C-students, I say, you too can be president of the United States."

Actually, according to the Boston Globe (and I know how faithfully you believe anything printed in the mainstream media) Bush's four year average at Yale was a C+ (77 on a scale of 100, with 79 being a B-). The same article mentioned that Bush's grades at Yale were actually higher than Kerry's were and Kerry got more D's. Bush's undergraduate grades at Yale were similar to Al Gore's undergraduate grades at Harvard, a high C average. None of them had academic records to be proud of but I will say that an Ivy league C from that era is probably the equivalent of a B+ today, with the grade inflation that has taken place.

So if Bush is an idiot because of his grades I guess that would make Gore and Kerry, Dumb & Dumber.

Getting an MBA at Harvard is also significant. So tell me fishlkmich, where is your masters degree from? :)

[Hamilton Reef]

Is English-sign rule racist or cautious? - 05/22/06 - The Detroit News
Sterling Hts. official wants translations to help emergency crews; critics say it reveals bias.

STERLING HEIGHTS -- A plan to require English translations on foreign-language signs on stores, bakeries and other businesses has caused an outcry in Sterling Heights that could put the city in the midst of a national debate

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060522/METRO/605220383/1003

[fishlkmich]

Munster,

So, you're saying that Bush doesn't even know what his GPA was?

I decided to go fishing instead of going to school. I never regretted it. I still have all I want and time to fish.

[Bwana]

when the democrat run executive branch put spending control on the republican Congress for eight years.

Are you trying to be this funny, or is it just coming natural? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Munsterlndr]

Munster,

So, you're saying that Bush doesn't even know what his GPA was?

I decided to go fishing instead of going to school. I never regretted it. I still have all I want and time to fish.

Um, I realize that democrats lack a sense of humor but do you think maybe he was joking? Kind of like Kerry was when he was asked about his grades and made the following comment. ''I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction, Kerry said."

I guess that you are so naturally brilliant that you didn't need any of that "education stuff".

Of course, those guys that went to Yale and Harvard ended up being President, Vice-president and a Senator but hey, you do have that fishing thing going for you. :D

By the way, it's worth taking a look at the Boston Globe article just to see the pictures of Bush and Kerry while they were in College. Kerry looks like a young Herman Munster and like he would be just tons of fun to hang with. :lol:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student? mode=PF

[fishlkmich]

No! I do NOT think that he was joking! He is a freakin' idiot!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. He should never have been responsible for a puppy, much less, a country.

Make sense of this, please:
4% Sounds Smaller Than One-third
This repeat offense features Dubya confusing the terms "income" and "payroll tax" in explaining his proposed Social Security privatization scheme. This transition from explaining that his plan proposes to allow people to invest 4% of their income (i.e. nearly one-third of the 12.4% of their income which currently goes into the Social Security system), to saying 4% of their payroll taxes, which is wholly inaccurate and misleading, somehow strikes me as something more than an unintentional misstatement.

First, a more correct explanation of the proposal, from earlier in the campaign...
The way the system works -- in order to make it work fiscally, is that you can start off with $1,000 into your account growing $100 a year up to 4 percent of your income. That's to answer your question. The idea is ultimately there will be -- if you're making $90,000, you can put $3,600 a year into your personal account. That's how you keep it more affordable than the numbers that have been -- being tossed about. (Feb. 3, 2005)

Now, the wording used subsequently...

1. Now, the program that we're suggesting to Congress is that personal accounts start slowly so that we can better fund the transition to personal accounts, and that eventually, though, workers should be able set 4 percent of their payroll taxes aside in a personal account. So assuming that the 4 percent level is reached, a person earning $35,000 a year over their lifetime, setting aside 4 percent of the money, with the compounding rate of interest, by the time he or she retires, will have a nest egg of $250,000. (Feb. 10, 2005)
2. If you're a younger worker, and say -- my proposal is, is that you can put 4 percent of your payroll taxes in the account, and the rest of it, obviously, will go into the Social Security system. If you're a younger worker who averages $35,000 over your lifetime, and you put the money set aside -- the 4 percent allowed to be set aside into a personal account, because of the compounding rate of interest, that will accumulate -- you'll accumulate $250,000 when it comes time to retire. (Feb. 16, 2005)
3. Do you realize that if you're a person who earns an average of $35,000 a year over your working career, $35,000, and you're allowed to take -- put 4 percent of the money, the payroll tax aside in a personal account and you hold it over time, that when you retire, you'll save a quarter-of-a-million dollars? (Mar. 4, 2005)

:yikes: :lol: :dizzy: :tdo12: :confused: :eek: :sad: :help:

Edited to add:

If you had to choose, which of these Dubya originals would you say is your favorite?

I can look you in the eye and tell you I feel I've tried to solve the problem diplomatically to the max.

I hear the voices, and I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the Secretary of Defense.

I know we're going to have to do something about energy. I aim to be a competitive nation.

I strongly believe what we're doing is the right thing. If I didn't believe it -- I'm going to repeat what I said before -- I'd pull the troops out, nor if I believed we could win, I would pull the troops out.

He's an IDIOT! Deal with it.

[fishin' fin]

Fin,

I expect you are a follower that did and are truly unable to contribute to a legitimate discussion concerning what is actually good for America, because of your inability to think for yourself.
AWW shucks duckdoc, You gone done and pegged me right off the bat! Not everbody is as quick upstairs as you is.:)

[Munsterlndr]

No! I do NOT think that he was joking! He is a freakin' idiot!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. He should never have been responsible for a puppy, much less, a country.


Bush is from Texas and uses many folksy colloquialisms, as is common among many Southerners. His "down to earth" manner of speaking was actually a positive for him on the campaign trail, as many voters are kind of tired of listening to liberal Easterners with Boston accents.

You equate improper language usage, in the spoken word, with idiocy. I'm sure you would apply the same standard to the written word, as well. So are you saying that posting messages on the internet, that are filled with spelling errors, is also evidence that you are an idiot? Just asking. :rolleyes:

[ChapstickCharlie]

When one is in doubt as to spelling or slang, try using an ordinary item from your refrigerator to help express your sentiments. For example mayonnaise. 'Mayonnaise gotta be other things to argue over today.'

:corkysm55

[Brown duck]

I am not affiliated with any groups other than Ducks Unlimited

Ever check to see how Levin votes on issues that DU is interested in - he pretty much sides with all things DU is in favor of!

[MOduckdoc]

Ever check to see how Levin votes on issues that DU is interested in - he pretty much sides with all things DU is in favor of!


It was just about two years ago when the wetlands restoration act expired and President Bush signed the continuation of the act. I feel that our national security comes about twelve notches up the list above eco issues, but am glad to see he still has some interest in preserving our wild areas and allowing us to use them.

Fin and you other Bush bashers, is there anything that this "idiot" has done correctly in your mind?

[Brown duck]

It was just about two years ago when the wetlands restoration act expired and President Bush signed the continuation of the act. I feel that our national security comes about twelve notches up the list above eco issues, but am glad to see he still has some interest in preserving our wild areas and allowing us to use them.


While I place environmental concerns very high on my list (not only my recreation but my career depend on it), I agree that there are other concerns which are of higher importance in the short-term. I think you're talking about the "Wetlands Restoration Program," which is actually not an "act" but part of the Farm Bill (but I digress...). And yes, Bush did ask Congress to fully fund it this year (and in years to come) which certainly works in the benefit of Ducks Unlimited, but on other issues, such as clean water/air, he and others who share his line of thinking have really missed the boat. Furthermore, the current administration is trying to show that we have had a net gain in wetlands over the past 7 years when in fact, valuable wetlands are diminishing at an alarming rate (currently we're losing wetlands, not "ponds," at a rate of about 80 mil acres/year!). So, while it may seem like they're doing great things for the environment, they're really doing very little.

And "preserving our wild areas" - that's a pretty thin argument. What about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge debate? It's one of largest "wild areas" left in the U.S. Instead of pushing for alternative fuels in the past (starting to now, but too little too late), politicians (both Republican and Democrat, and including the President) have pushed to make this a short-term solution to a very long-term problem.

All I'm saying is that if you are a frequent visitor to this forum (and DU member), you must place some kind of value on the out-of-doors. Think about where it will be in 100 years (sure, you and I won't be around, but others...) if we don't have more people like Levin fighting for it. Not saying Levin is perfect (he is afterall a politician), but he has done some good.

And as for things that Bush has done right (aside from asking for full funding of WRP): his hair always seems to be neat, and I like some of his ties - can't think of any others right now.

[MOduckdoc]

I love going to fish in clean Ozark streams. I love camping in the UP. I love all of my time in WY and CO. I even like the Everglades. I am environmentally concerned but I am aware enough to know that freedom first as that is how we can protect our environment through our participation in the system.

If we do not protect our country from terrorists we are not going to have to worry about any environmental issues as our country will be destroyed if radical musllims have their way. Defend America first then we can start worrying about other issues.

Act-Program symantics, I did it from memory no time for research as I actually try and get some work done while I am at work. I am interested in some researh concerning the figure of 80 mil acres lost each year. Where did you get that figure? Is that a world wide or North American figure?

[fishin' fin]

Fin and you other Bush bashers, is there anything that this "idiot" has done correctly in your mind?


Last time I check I didn't call anyone an "idoit." So, much like your hero Bush, you don't seem to pay much attention to the detailed FACTUAL information. Secondly, you know very, very little about me or my upbringing, being half southern I feel English should be the national language and it should have been done about 100 years ago. As to my Senators, I emailed each about their vote and how disappointed I was in this descision on their part, but they are dully elected by this state the same as are those in MO, thank you very much. As to the charge of my being stupid, well, if being a Uof M grad and holding a double masters is stupid, and Bush the C- student is smart, enough said. But since you are hung up on the whole "idiot" thing, I think I will follow Ranger Ray's advice, "Never argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience.":)

[MOduckdoc]

No! I do NOT think that he was joking! He is a freakin' idiot!!!

He's an IDIOT! Deal with it.

Fin, sorry for attributing the quote of "idiot" to you. I didn't have time to look back yesterday to find who said what, obviously I did it from faulty memory.
As far as calling you stupid, I don't recall (and am not going back to look) having called you stupid. Still the question is out there concerning the president, has he done anything right while in office?

[Munsterlndr]

Fin, sorry for attributing the quote of "idiot" to you. I didn't have time to look back yesterday to find who said what, obviously I did it from faulty memory.
As far as calling you stupid, I don't recall (and am not going back to look) having called you stupid. Still the question is out there concerning the president, has he done anything right while in office?

Don't feel bad MOduckdoc, those liberal fishing guys are pretty much interchangeable anyway.
:lol: :hide:

[fishin' fin]

Don't feel bad MOduckdoc, those liberal fishing guys are pretty much interchangeable anyway.
:lol: :hide:
Yeah....pretty much. Ha ha.:lol:

[MOduckdoc]

Still haven't answered the question. Has Bush done anything good since he has been president?

[eddiejohn4]

Fish sorry it took so long to post back, had to attend a conference. As to do I know Its illegal to smoke dope, yes I have heard this, but do you know that you should not consume them magic mushrooms they'll warp your mind, and you'll wake up a liberal.:D

[Brown duck]

I am interested in some researh concerning the figure of 80 mil acres lost each year. Where did you get that figure? Is that a world wide or North American figure?

Woops! Did I say million? Sorry, those are in thousands, my mistake (and now my argumend doesn't sound so impressive). 80 thousand acres/year (still a lot). That does make quite a difference. The point is, net gains are reported although net losses in "real" wetlands are happening.

The figure to which I am referring is in the latest Status and Trends of Wetlands report put out by the Dept. of Interior (only throughout the U.S.). Its right there for anyone to see (available on the USFWS website), but they try to mask the loss of "real" wetlands by including all ponds (Palustrine Unconsolidated Bottom; golf course ponds, backyard ponds, etc.) which don't necessarily fill the same ecological role, but are increasing by about 112 thousand acres/year. It's not hard to see if you can wade through the terminology. Keep your eyes peeled, DU will have something to say about it before too long.

[MOduckdoc]

They covered some of it at our state convention. I agree about the types of wetlands being lost and I am not to happy about it, but again I say we have to be safe, free and economically strong before we can make the environment our first concern. President Bush could have let the wetlands program and others just slide out of existance, but he didn't. He isn't perfect for our environment, but he hasn't set out to declare war on God's creations either.

[fishin' fin]

Fish sorry it took so long to post back, had to attend a conference. As to do I know Its illegal to smoke dope, yes I have heard this, but do you know that you should not consume them magic mushrooms they'll warp your mind, and you'll wake up a liberal.:D
:lol: Ive been smokin those morels for years, do I really sound like a liberal?:dizzy: The more I eat those morels the more I feel like a fiscal conservative. :16suspect Go figure?!:lol:

[eddiejohn4]

fish just take a look at who the orginal consumers of those little tiny bit of good ums were, I do believe they were the hippies and you do not get anymore liberal then that.:lol:

[MOduckdoc]

I guess I should give up on the libs giving an honest answer to a fair question.

Is there anything at all that President George W. Bush has done correctly since he has been in office?

[Munsterlndr]

I guess I should give up on the libs giving an honest answer to a fair question.

Is there anything at all that President George W. Bush has done correctly since he has been in office?

I'll answer from the conservative side but I'm pretty sure our liberal brethren will disagree. As a conservative I've found Bush somewhat disappointing, especially the fact that he backed off on the privatization of Social Security. That one is a no brainer and it is really irritating that we have to keep paying into a broken system that we are unlikely to ever get our money out of.

But if I had to choose one accomplishment that stands out it would be selecting two excellent supreme court justices and getting them confirmed.(although I almost had a stroke when he initially came out with Harriet myers) This, probably more than anything else he has done, will have a lasting impact that will positively effect our country.

[Brown duck]

I guess I should give up on the libs giving an honest answer to a fair question.

Is there anything at all that President George W. Bush has done correctly since he has been in office?

Give us a minute, we're still thinking!

[MOduckdoc]

Now that's funny, a lib thinking. ROFLMAO

[eddiejohn4]

Bush is doing what he said he would do! fighting terrorism. he has been a straight forward president ,and I know that the liberals on here will say he has lied to the american people broke constitutional laws, but Im afraid I do not see it this way at all.

Bush has made mistakes as all of our presidents have done this is called human, but for the most part I would not want another president at this time in our countrys history.He is a patriot who cares deeply about this nation.

[MOduckdoc]

Eddie, you are right he has made some mistakes, maybe even some really big mistakes, but these left wing kooks can not even bring themselves to be able to admit he has done some things right and that just prooves the point that there arguments and concerns hold no water. Their hatred from blindness has led them to sheer madness and an inability to reason. That is what is wrong with our country today. It is because of liberals being led to the trough and their intelectual laziness that the english language may very well become a second language sooner than you think.

At least most conservatives are able to think freely enough on their own that they can point out a few things that Clinton did well. There has not been one of the libs step up here in days of asking to give one positive thing about GW. Blindness and the dumbing down is going to kill this country that has been so blessed.