the myth??

[MuskyDan]

I posted this on the other heading but wanted every one to see it. I want to ask how does the small shop deal with this type of thing. Can we continue to service sportsman in Michigan or do we just need to step aside and let the big ones roll through like a glacier and wreck everything we got?? I need your input here what do we need to do as small shops to keep you out of the Walmarts and in our shops?? And what would it take to get you to try small shops before assuming that cabela's is cheaper.


Here it is in black and white:

the pink store is by no means a mom and pop bait shop, it is a gas station/party store/convience store. Not knowing what kind of shops you got in your area all I can say is this. At the shop I work at we are cheaper on many items and the same on the rest. We have service and smarts when it comes to what we sell. We understand how the lisence machine works, we can tie in a peep sight and customize things that the big guys wouldn't think about.

Example 1
A guy brings in a rod and reel combo he pays 24.99 for at Wal-mart we sell the same one for 19.99. He asks us to spool it with 4# test and it takes 225 yards at .03 per yard and when I ring him up he accuses me of ripping him off. Rood? you tell me. I politely let him no that he bought a salmon reel to use for gills and if he would have not been looking for the cheapest crap he could have gotten what he needed cheaper. Not being rood but the guy leaves feeling like a RETARD and he doesn't come back.

He leaves thinking that little shops are way over priced on line and that the shop owners are rood because they gave them some valuable help. It is getting to be a no win situation.

Example 2
A guy buys a bow at Cabela's and has to wait inline to get it set up so he figures he will bring it to our store to get it set up. He walks in and puts the following on the counter:
bow $749.99
Whiskur Biscut $49.99
Sight? $69.99
PEEP $4.99
release $59.99
Arrows $99.99

As I work on the bow he walks around expecting to see that he got a great deal on his purchase. The first thing that he sees is that we sell the bow for $699.99 now he is pissed but maintains composure cause he saved it everywhere else. As I am working I notice that the bow is the wrong draw length for the guy so I ask him if he wants me to change the draw module and he says yes. He continues to look and sees that we are the same price on everything else so as of now he is out 50. When I complete the set up and sight him in I go to ring him up and he starts to look at me funny like I was doing something wrong. I tell him the following:

Set up $40
cut and insert arrows $8.00 dz
Mod. swap $10

Now he is out $108 dollars and do you think he is smart enough to know he made a mistake?? No way man he says that it is a rip off and that Cabela's would have set him up for free. I said I know so would we have if you would have bought your stuff from us.

What do you do???

[brdhntr]

Dan,
You are going to find that the guys that do that are going to continue to do that. Those that actually spend time using the equipment and are dedicated to it are going to continue to use the "Mom & Pop" stores whenever they can. They see the value that a good small store can bring.

Having said that, everyone will continue to use Cabelas, too. Myself, I have one of their cards, and get lots of free stuff. Sometimes, they have stuff I want that a smaller store doesn't have. I bought a NAP dropaway there with gift certs I got from family last year. Went to put it on my bow, and couldn't get the old one out. Rather than risk damaging the riser, I took it to Hog Wild, fully expecting to pay as much or more than the rest was worth for the change. Ended up paying nothing. Might seam like a loser for the shop, but i turned around and spent $500+ on my wife's and son's setup. This year, I bought a new bow and all the accessories from them. Good return on the investment. I try to avoid the Walmart/Kmart unless I am desperate.

I did get my licenses from Meijer this year because I was there with the wife for other stuff and was waiting for her. Never again. I have the HIP survey on my license 5 times, even though I only answered it once, and they forgot to put my all species fish on it, had to go back. Took better than an hour to get everything right. :dizzy: Never again!

[Ugly Stick]

I understand its frustrating. One thing you should think about though is those two guys will not come back thats two potential customers. If you would have worked with them on the cost , expainded the costs up front they may have not been upset. If these guys would have left happy they would return, they would also tell all thier buds how you much better you are than your competition.

[MuskyDan]

thats right and it is wrong for me assume. But, I am not dumb enough to buy a cheap case of oil and a filter and go to jiffy lube and expect a free oil change.

Here is a better one we are the only place around that will spool line on peoples reels and they don't know how to do it themselves. We could charge like the gas companies if we wanted to, but we try to remain fair. Yesterday a guy brought in a spool of line from walmart and his reel and he wanted it put on for free. He spent 50 bucks on baits and stuff should I have put the line on free???

[Sixshooter]

Yesterday a guy brought in a spool of line from walmart and his reel and he wanted it put on for free. He spent 50 bucks on baits and stuff should I have put the line on free???

He spent 50 bucks in your store, correct? Would it have cost you ANYTHING to put the line on the guys reel?

I'm seeing a customer relations thing here. If it is zero cost to you...the guys has bought some product and showing support for your buisness you probably could have made a life long customer out of the guy by spooling his reel. Especially if you tossed in the tag line of since you baught some stuff here I can spool that for you. Of course I'm assuming you have an electric line winder.

The mom and pop shops keep saying they have better quality service and that is what you are payig for. BUT if you are not giving quality service to the customers then they are getting ripped off.

Whatever you do, you DO NOT want the person leaving your store feeling stupid or ripped off. If a buy buys his bow someplace else and wants it rigged up at your store. To me, you HAVE to tell him the costs up front. Especailly the added costs of the set up. If they have that information up front and the reason why there are those costs they can make an desicion...and then decide whether it is worth it to them or not. Then they can say if you buy the bow at this place they will also toss in the set up just like cabelas.

Seems like in your scenarios you are walking a fine line.

There is a bait shop in a little town where i grew up that I will NEVER spend a nickel in unless i absolutely have to. And it is because he was a very arrogant snob to me. It might not seem like much but here is what happened. I was looking to buy a couple new level wind salmon reels. I was looking at Okuma Convectors a few years ago. They were around 70 bucks at the time. So I asked the guy if he would put line on the reels for free. His response was defensive and pointed. "WHO IN THE HELL DOES THAT! NO I WON"T PUT LINE ON THOSE REELS FOR FREE. REALLY WHO DOES THAT?" So I told him that Gander Mountain in Grand Rapids was offering free line with a purchase of a reel. His response "THEN GO SHOPPING AT GANDER MOUNTAIN!" I said Okay I will.

It was all in his delivery. If he has stated that no I cannot do that it would cost me too much money. And said it politely I would still have bought the two reels from him AND the line. But since he wanted to be a jerk about it, I do my shoping else where.

So be VERY mindfull on how you treat your customers or potential customers...and be VERY carefull about talking bad about your competition. That is a sure fire way of people NOT trusting you.

[MuskyDan]

I certainly agree with you about being polite to people. I/we try to always be polite even when faced with headaches. As far as putting the line on for free (the guy that bought it at walmart) it does cost! Maybe not a lot but it does, and it is a service that, that person couldn't get anywhere else and I think that is worth something, again maybe not a lot but a buck or two. He was certainly told up front that there would be a minumal fee and that is probably why he shopped and spent 50 bucks.

Shopping at two stores thru one, that is a tuff one too. If a guy comes into my shop and says that about Gander and the free line on the level winds my gut says drive there then and spend the extra money in gas and deal with snobs and wait in line. But I can't do that, I smile nicely and say yes if I can do it, and no if I cant.

I have never heard anybody say that they were treated roodly or unfairly at Gander or Cabela's even though I know that people are practically ignored at both places. You darn near have to beg someone for service and then the majority of the time you're dealing with a kid that doesn't have a clue. So I guess that if someone mistakenly rubs you the wrong way at a mom and pop at least you're getting rubbed.:lol:

[sfw1960]

JimmY hit it RIGHT ON THE HEAD....
I used to work in an electronics shoppe , and we sold marine electronics among other products ~ I worked the "sport shows" too , and if you ever have - ya know how fun it is to hear everybody try to buy things for $20 less than you paid for it.
NEVER AGAIN.
My Wife is always trying to get me to open a computer repair shoppe , WHY ?? SO I can hear everyone tell me that if it'll cost any money they'll go buy a new "eMachine" @ walmart instead??
RIGHT!!
No matter WHAT you do , you have to treat the customer right - and if you can't stomach doing that , then you're in the wrong line of work.
:)
I have been running a CNC Router for the past 4-5 yrs. Do I love it? NO but it pays the bills and I'm not stressin' about how badly the customer (on the outside of the "cage") is harrassing me.....
:SHOCKED:
Cabela's/Gander NEVER give anybody ANY hassle when there's a dissatisfied or unhappy customer , they give 'em a refund , credit or whatever - and sometimes it's STILL not good 'nuff. They just want to get 'em out the door @ that point!
POOR facts of retail.
I like those small shoppes , and unless there's a huge price diff. I almost always buy it there- but selection is important too.

R
;)

[mmw52880]

hey Dan,

How ya been, is the store moving to 57 soon, I know a couple customers that will be in there a lot more as soon as it does! LOL I have always liked your guys' shop the best out of the local shops! I dont buy much but do like to go there, and have always got top notch service!!

Talk to you later,
Matt

[Bucky]

thats a shame

[Lwapo]

Here's my $0.02 on your situation...

I've worked at many small shops. I've even built them up from the day they've opened and it can be very, very tough to do.

Here are a few things to keep in mind...

1) If you are the same price as Cabelas, people will go to Cabelas. They have a greater selection on other products that you will not. So being the same price will not make people come to you instead of them. You have to be cheaper, or offer something that they dont.

2) Be EXTRA polite. You may be nice, but so are the people at a big-box store. People will come back if they know you're going to bend over backwards to do anything and everything that you can for them. If not, they might as well go to the big store and get the same service.

3) Don't assume. MOST people who hunt, fish, etc don't do it obsessively. They fish on the weekends, or only a couple times a year. The people who are walking in your door may know VERY VERY little about the gear they are getting/using. Don't assume that they know what they are talking about, but do not talk down to them either.

4) Everyone is a friend. Many small shops treat the regulars like stars, but lack that friendliness when other people come in. Obviously you want to keep the regulars happy, but with most stores, the regulars are less than half of your business. People should feel welcome in your store even if they've never been there before. You want them to leave with a "Wow, I'm coming back there!" feeling.

5) Be "like" a big-box store. Some small shops bomb because they are too different from what a customer normally sees. They want to see things arranged neatly, priced where they can see it, etc. If the store is strange to them, they feel dumb and the store becomes un-inviting. It is important to make them feel comfortable, not only in your personal converstions, but also in the layout of your store and goods.

6) ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure a customer knows EXACTLY what somthing is going ot cost before you lift a finger!!!!! If you tell someone that something is going to cost ___ then it better cost ____. If you don't say anything, then you are hoping that what you bill them is going to be equal or less than what they were thinking. They always think LOW.

7) Make your services known! If you do something that the big-box stores don't, TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT! Whether its putting lines on reels, or whatever... if you can offer something that they don't, that puts you all the much further ahead.

8) Give them a reason to come back. Make a card that you punch holes in towards a free lure. Give a free bucket of bait for every 10 purchased. Do something! Give them a reason to remember you and to come back to you. Even if it isn't an everyday trip!

9) "We can order it" - Never cuts it. If I have the money for it, I want it NOW. If someone else has it for a couple bucks more... I'm going to get it today. Try to keep any popular items in stock as often as possible. Chances are if someone is looking for something, they want (or need) it asap.

10) Put the fishing reports up. A big board (inside the store) will give people a reason to stop in. People who stop in, usually spend money!

11) Upsale. If they come in for a lure, offer them line, bait, other lures that might help, weights for the lure, etc. Anything you can do to 1) help them and 2) make more $$$.

12) WORD OF MOUTH. People will rarely go bad-mouth a big name store because they know other people like that store and it could lead to an arguement. If someone at Cabelas/Gander Mountian is mean to them, they will not push the matter. If someone at a small store is mean to them, they will bash that store to hell and back. Most people will not stop shopping at Cabelas because of 1 bad story from a friend, they WILL stop shopping at a local shop because of 1 bad story.

Just remember, when you are smaller, you HAVE to do more, offer more, and BE more than a big-box name. The big-box stores are big for a reason, it isn't because people hate going there. They are obviously doing something right, you just need to do MORE things, BETTER.

Good luck!

[twoteal]

It comes down to the dollars for me. I know what I want before I ever get to the store, I would be happy if I never had to actually talk to anyone when I am shopping. If I can get it all at one place like Cabelas or Gander, BPS, I will. I don't need some one to spool my reels, I rather do it myself so I know it is done right. If I buy 600 dollars worth of gear from a mom and pop store, I can get more from one of the biggies for the same amount. I may even spend what I save on gas for the boat, since gas is so high. It all comes done to my wallet and how far I can stretch a buck. Most of us know what we want when we go to the store I would imagine, why would you need customer service or a sales person to help you make up your mind on a purchase? If I have an equipment malfunction, Cabelas is the best replaced on the spot no question.

[Salami]

You do not want the people looking to save a buck! servise your loyal customers to the fullest, stock what they need, and sell to impulse buyers. my .02

[kp57_what]

:yeahthat: I could not agree with ya more, I have 4 mom and pops bait & tackle shops within 2-3 miles from me, and Franks about 20 mins down the road. I fish on a regular basis (2-3 times a wk) and always make a stop at which ever one is on the way. Sometimes I find my self with a hard decision (which one to go to) the service is that great. For instance the other day I went to one and bought minnows and I got well worth my 5 dollars. But I forgot I needed misc. things so stopped by another one on the way to the launch, I dont carry too much money on me fishing and actually came up short alittle over $2.00. I started putting things back and he said "ya know dont worry about it, I said "no no its ok, I'll put back these 2 pops back" he replied "its on us, enjoy the fishing and good luck". All of them are like that but on the business aspect they are competing with one another. Of course I'll go to a big chain store for rod and reels ect... just cuz of the selection but if I know you carry it, 99% of the time I'll buy it from you. I would think if your a moms and pops shop you'd want to be nice to everyone that stepped in the door and consider everyone a novice to what ever the situation is. Please don't take this the wrong way "owners" but don't these sportman/women keep your shop open right? I mean how many times do you here "SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BAIT & TACKLE SHOP"?


Example 1
A guy brings in a rod and reel combo he pays 24.99 for at Wal-mart we sell the same one for 19.99. He asks us to spool it with 4# test and it takes 225 yards at .03 per yard and when I ring him up he accuses me of ripping him off. Rood? you tell me. I politely let him no that he bought a salmon reel to use for gills and if he would have not been looking for the cheapest crap he could have gotten what he needed cheaper. Not being rood but the guy leaves feeling like a RETARD and he doesn't come back.

He leaves thinking that little shops are way over priced on line and that the shop owners are rood because they gave them some valuable help. It is getting to be a no win situation.


You said it best he left feeling like a "retard". Ok, you werent rude, but you probably could of taken a different approach heh. For example not taking anything away from Franks Outdoors but there are more than 1 or 2 items in that store that is over priced or items not marked down when ALL of the same items of there competitors is and people still buy it there. I don't think these people are stupid but think the service is that good which creates a loyalty. I'm guilty of it myself.

[mkroulik]

A little off the subject, but I don't consider Frank's a big box store. I consider it a mom & pop store because that's what it started as. Also, as far as I know the store in Linwood is the only Franks.

Mike

[kp57_what]

Sry your right, it did start that way. But regardless I hope my point came accross somewhat clearly.

[UP_ROKTOY]

Everyone is a friend. Many small shops treat the regulars like stars, but lack that friendliness when other people come in. Obviously you want to keep the regulars happy, but with most stores, the regulars are less than half of your business. People should feel welcome in your store even if they've never been there before. You want them to leave with a "Wow, I'm coming back there!" feeling.



I just thought that needed re-terating, often one of my biggest gripes of the mom and pop shops.

I enjoy Franks in Linwood on my way to oscoda, and usually its walmart or Kmart for little things due to being the closest, and BassPro for bigger shopping trips that are planned, due to being closest to work.

[FishDaddy09]

You will never make everyone happy. There will always be some people who think you are "ripping them off" if you don't give them everything for free. The truth is the 'public' are *****holes, and it can be a real challenge to deal with them. As long as you are polite, give people the best value that you can, and carry the things that people want and the big stores don't have you will have done all you can. The little bait store that I go to is over priced on many things, but they are close and I know they will have the things that I want and I always have a good conversation with the owner.

[Flash]

My perspective for your consideration...

1. haven't fished in well over 35 years.
2. acquired some poles from dad and a few lures.
3. in June am headed to Moon River Bay for some Pike/Walleye fishing.
4. 3 months ago, I head to a local shop (Grab Bag) and take in my gear. I was looking for some advice. First comment was how outdated my equipment was (70's vintage fiberglass poles) and how it would break with the first fish I caught. They couldn't help me with lure selections, but if I could get information on what my "buddies" use there, then they could help me pick out some lures. They suggested I get a couple of Ugly stick's with closed face underspin reels - and I did. They even let me take one to the parking lot, practice a while (got caught in a tree), and then tossed in a practice plug for free.

I spent over $100.00 and left feeling both ignorant (on using dad's poles) and grateful for them not selling me a bunch of lures which may or maynot have worked.

I spent the next 2 months going to every fishing department in Meijers, Wall Mart, Gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shop, looking at every piece of fishing equipment I could. I spent hours looking and researching. So much time, that at least twice (once at gander Mountain and once at BPS) security came lurking around, thinking I was casing the place. I also spent another $300+ at those stores on tackle boxes, plano boxes and lures. I was not going back to Grab Bag, as naieve as the 1st time. I will go back to have my undercast reels spooled with power pro before the trip. I may pick up a couple other items while I'm there. I will also be fishing with those poles that they said would break. After all, they caught alot of fish for my dad and didn't break.

The reason I went to the mom/pop shop first, was I was hoping for some hands on tutoring. I basically got it. The reason I went to the "big box" stores was for the autonomy and my ability to just look and learn without feeling like I had to make a decision and buy something.

Just my experience so far.

Flash

[waterfoul]

I often wander around the local Gander... but they know me there from fishing tournaments. I don't always buy something either. This store also happens to be the most convenient and closest store for me (and it's on my way home from work). The closest local "mom and pop" store is about 3 miles further away, and they have a couple guys working there (including the owner) who seem to look down on me (and others as I've heard around town from other anglers) as an amateur. i dont' go there often due to this. I even have a friend and co-worker who works there part time... and he agrees with me on the gruffness of the guys I'm talking about here. I won't mention the shops name as I'm sure some guys here shop there and have no issues. I guess not looking your age can be a downfall?? I'm nearly 40 but don't look anywhere near that age (so I'm told). I guess if you don't drop hundreds of $$ while you're there, your a nuisance?? Seems true at this shop. Now the other local small shop is just the opposite and I will mention the name, Al and Bob's. I always get good advice and good service there, without ever being treated like a kid. So, "mom and pop" shops can go to both extremes I guess.

And while I'm not a pro fisherman, I can catch fish with the best of them. Right Booktens? SFW? Glugger? Hello... anyone out there??

'Foul

[sfw1960]

And while I'm not a pro fisherman, I can catch fish with the best of them. Right Booktens? SFW? Glugger? Hello... anyone out there??

'Foul
Speaking of myth...LOL!!
Yeah - I'm "out there"
:lol:
Does that statement mean that you're lumping in my 'abilities' with the likes of Booktens or Glugger???

:yikes:

Are we "pro's" ....?
:SHOCKED:

R