Foote Dam, what would you have done?

[Krull]

Stoped in at Foote Friday night to take a look and throw a line out for an hour or so. There was hardly anyone there. I was throwing some spawn under a float, when a guy walks past me and goes right to the edge of the coffer. He has an appx 7 foot rod a huge little Cleo and cable in the 15-25LB range on his reel. I grin, thinking I am going to enjoy watching this idiot cast down the coffer edge and instantly snag up and have to break off what must be a $5 chunk of hardware. Unbelievably, he didn't cast out to the river, he chucked his cast up the spill way and damn near hit the DAM! I watched in horror as he did this, and was relieved when he snagged up and lost his Cleo. I figured he would not try that again. Sure as %$#@, he reloaded and did it again, and again, and again. He was now on his fifth little Cleo, postioned below the coffer but casting into the Spillway. I had made the conscience decision that if this guy did pitch fork a steely and tried to string it up, I was going to say something/ stop him, but I didn't want trouble in less it was necessary. Anyway, he must have ran out of Cleo's becasue he eventually did stop. He did have a fish hooked for a short period of time but thankfully it got off. I know I could have called the Poach hot line, but I wasn't sure if this guy was perhaps a little slow, just ignorant, or if he knew exactly what he was doing so I did not want to throw him under the bus. I guess I should have just said something to him that what he was doing was illegal, but I really did not want any trouble. Thoughts........

[jstfish48162]

not a salmon/seelie fisherman, but i would have said something about the laws.
had a similar instance with a guy at the Maumee River who had a snagged fish in the net, and strung it up. i asked if he knew it was illegal....he said yeah, but no DNR is around. i came back with....how do you know that i am not the DNR? (didn't say i was, cuz that is just as much against the law) he promptly put the fish in the river....left and never saw him again the rest of the day.

[Erik]

My guess is he knew exactly what he was doing. It's hard to not notice the huge signs that say "warning it is unlawful to fish in the spill way".
Guess maybe he could be illiterate? Still got a feeling he knew.

[ausable_steelhead]

I would have put on a cleo and joined him, that's an instant fish on, J/K:D ! I would have just let him go at it, the DNR is AROUND this spring, I've seen them 4-5 times the past two weeks. In my honest opinion, the coffer should be open, atleast from Nov. 15-April 1st, guys wouldn't snag steelhead, there is absolutely no need, they're very good biters. The coffer might provide SOME natural repo, but I doubt it's very much. Krull, your a smart steelheader, that's a very good tactic there, rarely used, but deadly.

[NEMichsportsman]

I used to give people the benfit of the doubt and assumed they were merely stupid...after trying to help out some of the "IQ Impaired" with unpleasant results, I now just keep the pertinent DNR numbers in my speed dial.

Bottom line is you can help the mentally challenged... but not the ethically challenged!

[sprigdog]

it is ALWAYS best for someone in green suits to determine ignorance.

[steelymike]

The same thing was going on yesterday mid-day. Guys standing at the edge of the coffer hooking a steelhead every drift in the spilllway. I started talking **** to them and they quickly booked with their stringer of illegal fish. I hope they burn in hell and never catch a steelhead again:rant:

[Burksee]

it is ALWAYS best for someone in green suits to determine ignorance.My thoughts on this subject are if you know better the chances are they do to. IMO - If your a real sportsman by not making the call to stop it is almost as bad as doing it! :irked: Sorry if that sounds harsh and this is not a personal attack on anyone but its getting old reading the posts by people that watch poachers in action, do nothing about but take the time to post a thread and bitch about it! :Protest_e :tsk: :bash:

Just a warning to all would be poachers that read this thread, I'll be at the Ausable the next two weekends, I'll be carrying my cell phone. I have the RAP number on my speed dial and I'm not afraid to use it! :evil: :yikes: :mad:

[sprigdog]

burksee, exactly..what i meant to say was make the call to RAP..let the CO's determine ignorance.
I surely would educate first, if i get blown off..out comes the cell phone.

[Big_P]

Poachers can piss off!! One of me buddies was fishing yesterday and gave me a call and said that there were like 5 to 7 guys fishing down at the Sanford dam. Which I'm sure you know is closed off for Walleye(because there stacked in there like pancakes right now...:lol: )spawning purposes. I SAID CALL THEM UP!!! He went to check on them and the boys in green were already there!!! 2 trucks RIGHT ON TOP OF THEM!!! Seeing them get busted.....PRICELESS!!!! What a good day to be a REAL fisherman!!!

[Burksee]

burksee, exactly..what i meant to say was make the call to RAP..let the CO's determine ignorance.
I surely would educate first, if i get blown off..out comes the cell phone.Sprigdog, Was not bashing you at all. I was using your post of an example of what should be done. Let the CO's do they're job and sort them out. I'm not going to ruin my day or fishing trip getting into it with someone that I'm sure already knows the rules and knows they're doing wrong. It doesn't take a degree to figure out who's poaching and who might be lacking in knowledge of the rules. ;)

[Krull]

My thoughts on this subject are if you know better the chances are they do to. IMO - If your a real sportsman by not making the call to stop it is almost as bad as doing it! :irked: Sorry if that sounds harsh and this is not a personal attack on anyone but its getting old reading the posts by people that watch poachers in action, do nothing about but take the time to post a thread and bitch about it! :Protest_e :tsk: :bash:

Just a warning to all would be poachers that read this thread, I'll be at the Ausable the next two weekends, I'll be carrying my cell phone. I have the RAP number on my speed dial and I'm not afraid to use it! :evil: :yikes: :mad:

Jeez, Like I said in my post, If he did snag one and string one up, I would have said / done something. I didn't post to bitch. My only thought was since he was postioned below the line, maybe he thought it was OK to cast up into the spillway. I actually got pleasure in watching him lose $25 in Lurers. But that said, I agree with you in principal and next time I will call.

[Thunderhead]

its getting old reading the posts by people that watch poachers in action, do nothing about but take the time to post a thread and bitch about it! :Protest_e :tsk: :bash:



Freakin Amen.

[Due51]

I've programmed the RAP hotline into my phone.

[ausable_steelhead]

If I had it my way, it'd be open, all that coffer does is let a bunch of salmon rot, and a bunch of steelhead do the same. Very few young fish make it out and survive to come back as wild fish, and two returing wild fish is not worth it to me. The way the Au Sable is anymore, the coffer is your best shot at a steelhead. And actually, when it comes to illegalality(did I just make that up?), I'd rather see a guy throw up there and hook a BITING fish, then watch the liners down off the point, at the HB'S, and at the BSC rip non-biting fish off they're beds and get away with it.

[Fishndude]

I'm with you, AS. I would gladly fish the coffer, even if it was Catch and Release fishing only. At least people would be able to fish for and catch the fish our license fees pay for. The way it is now, they just get up in there where nobody can legally fish them, and they are a waste of a resource. When the river gets up to 80* each Summer, the tiny little Steelhead parr either migrate out to the lake, where they are easily consumed by Perch and other fish, or they just cook and die. No natural reproduction so speak of.

If the DNR will not allow fishing in the coffer, then they should find a way to block the fish so they can't get it there, and give everyone a chance to catch them down below. But that would just make too much sense, and the DNR is a branch of State government, and do not need to be accountable for poor decisions like that. They do a lot of good. They do some harm at times, too.

[Burksee]

I'm with you, AS. I would gladly fish the coffer, even if it was Catch and Release fishing only. At least people would be able to fish for and catch the fish our license fees pay for. The way it is now, they just get up in there where nobody can legally fish them, and they are a waste of a resource. When the river gets up to 80* each Summer, the tiny little Steelhead parr either migrate out to the lake, where they are easily consumed by Perch and other fish, or they just cook and die. No natural reproduction so speak of.

If the DNR will not allow fishing in the coffer, then they should find a way to block the fish so they can't get it there, and give everyone a chance to catch them down below. But that would just make too much sense, and the DNR is a branch of State government, and do not need to be accountable for poor decisions like that. They do a lot of good. They do some harm at times, too.I know this first part of my post may be a bit off the subject but worth mentioning; FND; Maybe you and AS are a little to young to remember when you could snag salmon there in the coffer. OMG what a zoo, nightmare, outa control mobs! Watching that is something that will forever be embedded in my mind! :yikes: I see memories of that happening if they ever opened up the coffer to that kinda fishing again. While I'm sure there are a few fishermen that know how to do C&R properly you cant play C&R by throwing ol' oversized spoons at those fish! While I agree it seems a shame to let them only go so far and possibly not make it back for another season I gotta believe it's easier for the DNR to watch and govern over if it if the coffer there is closed to all types of fishing. As far as the natural reproduction remarks go I'd rather we take the chances that some make it rather than none. :) Your right though, doesn't much matter what the DNR does, they're dammed if they do by some and dammed if they dont by others.....;)

[ausable_steelhead]

Burksee, at 24, yeah I am too young to have seen the mess there used to be there. But I have talked to plenty of the old-timers, and some of the other guys, and I've heard some stories, some not very pleasant. I just think it should be open for steelhead, maybe even every other month, but I'm sure guys would go over board and start fights over who's spot is who's. I heard back when it was open, the locals would secure the entire wall up above, and wouldn't let any weekender or downstater anywhere near there, just them and they're buddies. I've thrown a few casts up there when I was younger,and I didn't know what I was doing, it was just good to have a fish on in those days, and that happened on EVERY cast. I do like when the slack is on the access side, I'll throw bags(hook-less of course) or just loose salmon spawn in there and watch the steelhead beeline right for it in the fall, it's hard to watch, let me tell you that:D ! I do see the largest steelhead of the year in there though, for some reason they don't get caught below, and everyone thinks there are no big ones in that river, but take one look up there in the spring, and you WILL see some hogs!

[Fishndude]

I fished in the coffer for many years before it was closed. The DNR basically closed it under pressure from the Michigan Steelheaders Association "to preserve the prime spawning waters for natural reproduction." I got that directly from the CO's many times right after it was closed, and they have since maintained that it will never be opened again. The entire premise is laughable, since the river gets way too warm in Summer for Steelhead parr to survive. There is really no viable natural reproduction of Steelhead in the Ausable - and that comes from a DNR Biologist who did an extensive study on it.
So essentially the DNR closed that pool to fishing and decided to enforce no fishing regulations instead of no snagging regulations. To me that is a complete cop-out. I am thinking it will be a moot point in a couple years, since there won't be any decent Salmon or Steelhead fishing anymore anyhow, but the fact remains that we pay for licenses and are not able to take advantage of those fish once they jump the coffer dam. It is a complete waste of that resource.
I do not ever remember hordes of locals crowding non-locals out of the action. Sure there were plenty of times when there wasn't room for anyone else to fish - just like at Tippy dam, or any other dams around the State when the runs are at their peak. And "Snagger Dave" was always at the top spot, next to the wall - because he got there first and stayed there the longest. Sure I have seen people behaving very badly there, and doing atrocious stuff to fish and each other - again just like at Tippy dam, or Allegan dam. I guess it would be up to law enforcement to be present and make sure that people are staying within the law - just like they do at Tippy.

Sorry for the diatribe, but this has been a sore spot for me for years.

[Krull]

Regarding actually allowing fishing in the spillway, I personally think that would be a very bad idea. Maybe I feel this way for selfish reasons, but it is nice to be able to fish the area around the Dam with a reasonable expectation of space. The last thing I would want would be Foote to turn into Tippy East. I swore off that place years ago. Opening up that area would be basically giving a license to snag and line fish. It would bring out the worst in "Sportsman" IMO. A-holes already leave too much garbage, line, beer cans, ect as it is (Yes I pick up what I can), if that Spillway was opened to fishing I can not even imagine the mess. I understand and respect everyones points regarding wasting a resource, ect, but I would say be careful what you wish for in this particualr instance. If you want every cast type action, go to a trout pond....:lol:

[ausable_steelhead]

No I don't want every-cast action, but there comes a point in the season on the Au Sable, where the holes are not producing fish much, mostly drop-backs. Every redd has people on them, so when you get low on spawn, it'd be nice to throw up in the spill, whack a loose hen, and then your all set. And Foote dam is far from a spacious, relaxing place. Go there on a Saturday, and it's just like Tippy. One of my buddies counted 42 guys on Sunday or Monday, can't remember which, that's alot of people for them days, especially if it was Monday. The fish this year are there, but they ARE not hitting. I watched countless fish porpise, jumping the spill, and running under the "falls" yesterday, and there were three caught while I was there, pathetic. That spill is filled with fish. Maybe they could do a special license or something, I think it should be open. Ask all the guys about when it was legal, it only got out of hand during salmon season. You can fish the spill at Tippy, so why not Foote.

[Fishndude]

I understand your concerns, but there are simple solutions to them. Why doesn't the DNR keep trash barrels around at Foote dame for people to put trash into anymore? They used to have this, and staffed people to empty them. They do this in other similar places (Tippy), and used to at Foote dam. And if you have ever been to the Highbanks during the peaks of Salmon or Steelhead season, most people are throwing very long leaders, trying to line fish - which is still way safer than when everyone tossed large lead snagging "lures." I am not justifying this, and do not participate, but the fact is that it still goes on.
The point is that all of the fish want to migrate upstream, and many of them make it into the pool at the coffer where nobody can take advantage of them. It is a perfect place for fishing, and can accomodate a lot of people fishing, and everyone can fish together safely and productively. As it is today, the fish that make it into that pool are a wasted resource, at a time when runs are dwindling, and the popularity of Steelhead fishing is at an alltime high.
If a lot of people fished at the coffer, then they would not be in other parts of the river, which would make other places less crowded, and would provide a higher quality of fishing for people in those places.

All that being said, I fish from a boat, and if one spot is taken when I get there I just move on to another. I might not even fish in the coffer if it was open again, because I do not like crowded fishing. Then again, that is where anyone would stand the best chance of catching fish, so maybe I would sometimes. Like in the middle of January. :lol:

[Krull]

AS + FD, I respect both of your views and points. I have seen Foote Dam packed full and even at its absolute worst it is way better than Tippy. I understand that given a perfect world a DNR officer could be stationed there to watch what goes on in when fishing the Spillway if it were to be opened, but obviously this is not feasable so I have no doubt pitchforking would take precedence over those legitimately trying to catch the fish. I am sure that when they made the decision to close off the fishing there was in a large part due to the fact that there was no way to adequately enforce anti-snagging rules short of positioning an officer on a stand similar to a life guard 24-7. Self governance by fisherman would not work IMO, just look at my thread, I saw someone doing something wrong and basically took no action, mainly because until I saw him actually snag one I didn't feel like dealing with the drama of an argument with some inbred unless it was necessary. I guess I am getting older and no longer want to be put in a position that would force me to loosen the guys final two teeth when he mouths off to me. Regarding the garbage, I could not agree more that they need something put in place there.

[ausable_steelhead]

I'd fish it just to get a hog from the Au Sable. My biggest steelhead is 11.25lbs, a hen below Foote in april 03'. I've been stuck on that for three seasons now, and it looks like it'll be that way for awhile. Though the fish are nicer-sized this year, they're mostly 6-9lbers, with a 10-12 here and there. I've seen a 13.5lb fish, and one other one, the one everybody's talking about up there that was a supposed 40" and near 20lbs, I seen that one, more like 35"/12lbs. But you catch very few big fish below, for whatever reason. I see monsters up in the spillway every year. It'd be nice to feel a fish like that. And I was wondering about the trash can deal, they have people who go down there and pick up trash, but why not put in trash barrels, and those wooden line-discarding posts they have all up and down the Big Manistee below Tippy, all the way down to Suicide Bend? That would be nice. And while there are alot of "bad apples", I see for the most part, decent guys down there, atleast this season. The fishing has gotten bad to the point where it's all about who got how many, to where guys are getting super competitive and they'll do whatever to get a fish, just because they're buddies did. I remember not too long ago, EVERYBODY hooking up at the dam, and having a ball. Everybody got along, and everybody had fun, because they were ALL hooking up. Now, guys get pissed if your the only one hitting them, and it gets fairly tense down there at times. They need to do something, maybe plant the smolts in the fall, or earlier in spring, instead of right now when the MOST pressure is on the river. ALOT of smolts are killed from getting caught, either being deeply-hooked, handled rough, or in some cases, guys get annoyed by them, so they just rip the hook-out, killing the smolt. Also, cormorants are not around in March, or November, making it ideal for more to head out. Plus if they fall planted, it would keep the yearlings in the river longer, thus acclimating them more closely to the river, insuring(hopefully) more adults returning to the Au Sable, instead of Canadien streams. I guess my reply got alittle off subject:D , but just some things to think about. Also, I don't think guys would snag steelhead, they bite very well. Was there many snagging incidents during spring when it was open? I've only seen one incident, spring 03, of blatant steelhead snagging. These two guys, well only one was doing it, came down at night. I was down there with my brother, running glo-corkies and spawn. The guy was firing torpedos into the far corner of the white-water, and ripping. He kept 7 or 8, but he got caught two hours later, by a CO hiding in the woods just downstream, and watching with night-vision.

[Krull]

I hear you about wanting to land a large steel. Biggest I pulled out of there was 12 LB and that was 7 years ago. Regarding snagging, lets be honest, one does not need a Torpedo and 20 LB cable to snag a steelhead. I understand that steelhead will hit and that ideally this is what people are attempting to do, but..... Lets just say I question the ability of the DNR to enforce regualtions of the closet snagger and I will leave it at that.

[jayzbird]

hey guys,

There are still big fish being taken out of the river. One of my fishin bro's Brad Wren took a 17.11 lb. 33" hen last April 29th downtown on spawn. He caught it driftfishing on 6lb. line. Check it out if you don't believe.....it's in the master angler awards section of the DNR's website. It was the 3rd biggest steelhead caught in the state last year. The first two were lake fish from Lake Michigan caught on spoons. They measured 19.19 lbs., and 18.06 lbs. So i'd say the 20lb. and 40" was exaggerated a little. Props out to him he deserved it. I don't know of any other guy that fishes that river as hard as him except for a few other guys!!! And they all fish with him!!! Tight lines.....

[Krull]

JZ- that is a beauty. Biggest one I personally saw caught and weighed was a buddy of mine got a 15 LB buck drop back fishing hot n tots almost 10 years ago, early April. It was bright red in color, I will never forget that fish.

[ausable_steelhead]

Hey jayzbird, I don't believe you:D ! No, just kidding. That must have been one FAT hennie, 33" and 17lbs! I fish her pretty hard, but not really this season, I got tired of working prime winter holes, and blanking. I probably should start fishing low more, I rarely fish the mouth or the holes up the first mile or two, some good water there. Does he fish from a boat?

[jayzbird]

Hey jayzbird, I don't believe you:D ! No, just kidding. That must have been one FAT hennie, 33" and 17lbs! I fish her pretty hard, but not really this season, I got tired of working prime winter holes, and blanking. I probably should start fishing low more, I rarely fish the mouth or the holes up the first mile or two, some good water there. Does he fish from a boat?

Actually he caught the fish wading. He does fish from a boat ocassionally, but also does alot of wading. I wasn't there to see him land it. He showed me the master angler certificate last weekend at my brothers house. I also know he landed over a 15 lb. buck the year before, but i'm not sure when or where he caught it on the river. He has the knack of a landin the big ones for sure!!!:SHOCKED: I'm headed up this weekend to do some turkey huntin and will be on the river in the afternoon/evenings, i'm sure i'll run into him, and i'll ask.

[chrome_steelhead]

probably also snags the salmon out of thier in Mid september, too:rant: :dizzy: :bonk: :bash: