centerpin vs spey

[no lead]

we know float rods are usually very long, and so are spey rods, are the 2 interchangeable? i know spey is fly fishing, but i put my spin reel on my fly rod all the time, any thoughts?
:fish: kip :fish:

[Treven]

A lot of us centerpin guys have started tying spey blanks into float rods with great success. Mainly for heavier tippet situations are these used. I have not spey fished, but I would think a traditional float blank would not suffice in casting spey line. As for putting a spinning reel on either of them, if the situation dictated I would most definitely. Matter of fact I had my 13' St. Croix III before I had my centerpin and caught fish with a spinning reel (not near as many as I have with my centerpin though:D ).

Trev

[Northlander]

Spey fishing.:dizzy: Professional duck N' chucking at it's best. Longer rod = heavier swing chucking = tired out arms = a waste of your time throwing the rod around all day. Your better off throwing on that spinning reel if you do not have a centerpin. I could possibly see certain situations that suit spey fishing, but I yet to find any.

[bombcast]

I got into spey fishing last year and enjoyed the hell out of it. Not enough to chuck all the other methods I enjoy, but it sure is an effective way to present a deeply sunk streamer. I love that yank.

If I wanna float fish, I'll do it with conventional steelie tackle, never understood the speydicator stuff.

[gomer]

If you are talking about putting a centerpin reel on a spey rod, prepare for sore arms...

A spey rod is NOT balanced correctly for using a centerpin reel. Holding a speyrod with a centerpin reel on it will cause the rod to be extremely top heavy and will be litterally a pain to fish with. However, I have used my 13ft imperial spey rod with a spin reel on it for big water float fishing (before I bought a pin) and it works fine. Keep in mind that a spey rod weights considerably more than a float rod.

-Adam

[Speyday]

I'll differ from and expand a bit on what gomer is saying...... spey rods may be heavier than float rods.....thats true....but also remember...all spey rods dont weigh the same. there are 11"6 and 15 foot spey rods, 6 wt, 10 wt spey rods. Each variation between there will have a different weight BLANK.

You can fish a heavy spey blank "IF" its balanced with the centepin reel correctly. that makes a huge difference. I would rather fish a 18 oz rig that is properly balanced than a 10 ounce rig that isn't.

For example: I use my centerpin rods for pier fishing and have GIANT spinning reels on them that are way overboard for the great lakes; but they balance correctly on the rod....."that's " why I got em.

My thought/point is that if youre going to buy a spey rod for pinning, make sure you slap your reel on it and hold it at about a 75 degree angle for a while with a very light grip...and you'll see whether or not Gomer's prediction comes true. Finding a factory rod that balances both a pin and a spey fly reel will be difficult, though.

Option B: Other folks will balance thier grip acc. to the reel they use and build a rod; on a spey blank.....and that gives you full control over the handle and reel positioning. If you really want to have a rod that can spey and centerpin fish, I would guess that the spey rod should probably have sliding rings on the handle so you can balance each reel at different places for each style.

Just my $.02

[TheSteelheadBum]

I agree with Gomer. I would like to see the spey rod you can buy in spey rod form. Slap a pin on it and it balance out any where near the way it should.

[shotgunner]

Spey rods are meant to be cast with TWO hands, re 'DBL hander'.

i dont believe for a second that 'float' rods are lighter. the balance point IS the issue. i'm sure i'll see some diffs of opinion on this so please state your favorite blank & finished rod weight/length in your post :lol: if you had to fish a pin on a spey i'll bet you could locate your reel where you wanted it and tape it in place.

Spey fishing. Professional duck N' chucking at it's best. Longer rod = heavier swing chucking = tired out arms = a waste of your time throwing the rod around all day. Northlander 4-10-06

Northlander, are/were you serious with that opinion?

spey casting is not for everybody and very unproductive in comparison to float fishing on a centre pin, spin reel, or baitcaster. float terminal is the same, much like C&D on a fly rod vs. traditional drift fishing- same ol'/same ol'. spey casting is what these folks enjoy, catching is secondary. SG

[TheSteelheadBum]

Spey Rods for the most part are heavier as far as the blank goes and here is why. Spey rods have to live up to a much more stressful style of fishing. They are made to toss around a heavy fly line all day and that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on a blank. The easiest way you can tell is look at the diameter at the tip of a spey blank and then look at the diameter of a float rod. This is not true for all float rods but look at the high end ones vs. the high end spey rods and you will see. Now as far as the finished weight on the rod goes I would say the float rod is heavier due to the type of hardware/guides you use on a float rod. Correct me if you think I am wrong but based on what I have seen on the Sage and Scott spey rods they are quite a bit thicker at the tip than a G Loomis IMX or Raven float rod. The spey rods also seem quite a bit more tip heavy than a traditional float rod "based on being held at the same distance from the butt for a balance measurement". I would have to say spey fishing is not a waste of your time though. I also agree it is a balance issue if you relocated the reel seat you could use any spey rod with a pin but, if you left the reel seat the same you would definitely have huge balance issues. I also think that when people are comparing the 2 different types of rods they are looking at the wrong weight fly rods. Most float rods on the market are closer to 5/6 weight spey rods instead of the 7/8 many people would usually compare them too.

[Treven]

Kory hit it on the nose, Float blanks and spey blanks have altogether different tapers, actions, and powers. Each has its own time and place, but I can honestly say most quality float blanks will do the trick in the GL region. Spey blanks have a time and place and quite frankly I've thought about putting $$ down on two blanks instead of getting one made right away. I use a St. Croix Avid Float rod and LOVE it. But I want a New Avid 7/8 blank to tie and a 15' Frontier MX also. The Frontier is #1 on the list now, but I want a lighter spey conversion in my arsenal when the fish are big and active. I wish I was rich:dizzy: !

But back to the question at hand, yes you could interchange reels, but balance is the key there. Good points guys!

Later,

Trev

[Northlander]

Northlander, are/were you serious with that opinion?

spey casting is not for everybody and very unproductive in comparison to float fishing on a centre pin, spin reel, or baitcaster. float terminal is the same, much like C&D on a fly rod vs. traditional drift fishing- same ol'/same ol'. spey casting is what these folks enjoy, catching is secondary. SG

I didn't know that people like spending 800.00 or more on a rod combo to just throw it around all day. I would also imagine that catching fish with any type of rod would become the first priority to fishing. Why would you go otherwise?

For that matter, I would just go up to the woods and chainsaw myself a 15 foot stick, tie on some florocarbon line with a strike indicator (BOBBER) and a wiggler nymph fly, and just chuck it around all day. I suppose I would save myself the money for something else useful otherwise.:dizzy:

And yes, I'm serious. If I were to spend a extreme amount of gas money on a fishing trip, I would bring my more productive fishing gear. If your a spey fisherman, I'm sorry If I offended you, but I still find it alot more productive to fish a river system with either a Centerpin combo, or Spinning combo of any kind. You can obviously cover more area.

Besides, I would rather save my energy fighting the fish anyways.

[wackoangler]

I want to respond to you northlander, but I know my post will probably get deleted.:mad:

[Northlander]

I want to respond to you northlander, but I know my post will probably get deleted.:mad:

Anotherwords, you have nothing to say..... If you have a so-called thought, then what's holding you back?

[shotgunner]

Spey Rods for the most part are heavier as far as the blank goes

Bum, your last post was a good one, and i agree with most of it. the lack of light spey blanks in longer length is the biggest obstacle to getting an accurate comparison. your lucky to find anything @ 13' with 12' being more the norm. hard to tell much about weight of a blank by the diameter alone though, wall thickness plays a huge part.

Northlander........ wow buddy.. where to start? what is it to you how others spend their earnings? or, what seems to bother you more, their time? you seem quite critical of things you dont understand and your obviously ignorant about most things spey. why do you suppose there are archery & black powder only seasons? their obviously not the 'most productive' methods..... its because people enjoy them. SG

[Riverkeeper]

Spey fishing.:dizzy: Professional duck N' chucking at it's best. Longer rod = heavier swing chucking = tired out arms = a waste of your time throwing the rod around all day. Your better off throwing on that spinning reel if you do not have a centerpin. I could possibly see certain situations that suit spey fishing, but I yet to find any.

If your a spey fisherman, I'm sorry If I offended you, but I still find it alot more productive to fish a river system with either a Centerpin combo, or Spinning combo of any kind. You can obviously cover more area.

Besides, I would rather save my energy fighting the fish anyways.

Let's clarify a few things for people not "in-the-know"

If you are fishing a Spey rod, you're likely not chuck and ducking. Most people use different techniques for the specialized rods. Swinging streamers for example.

And actually, you don't get as tired swinging this rod as you think. You only false cast once. Most flyrods you have to make multiple false casts, which tires you out more.

Lastly, you can cover ALOT of water with Spey rods. I'd like to see someone make a 40-yd cast with a centrepin.

[TheSteelheadBum]

Shotgunner you make a great point about wall thickness playing a huge role in the weight of the blank but, wouldn't you say most spey rods would have a thicker wall due to the fact they have to hold up to so much pressure from slinging a heavy spey line around all day? Especially since spey rods are built to be used with heavy sink tips in a lot of cases? Just a thought but to be honest I do not know for sure like you said it is hard to gauge since the longest 6 weight you can find is 12'6" which is a bummer. I wish Sage would build a 14 foot 6 weight "I would be using that blank for my next float rod if they did:)"

Riverkeeper a 40 yard cast is not impossible with a center-pin "It is a very long cast but it could be done with a heavy float and a strong wind to your back:) " On a more serious note I agree with you "Riverkeeper" when you say you can cover a lot of water with a spey rod. If you think about it swinging streamers "if done properly" covers just about the same amount of water as a guy drifting wobble-glos with a spinning rod. You also do not have to reel in and cast every time it is just a couple rod movements and the fly is back where it needs to be so in theory you may be covering more water with the spey rod!!! I will say there is no way a spey rod can cover water like a center-pin can but bottom line if you enjoy spey fishing then go out and do it. It is your money, your time and, your life do what makes you happy:)

[Hex4steel]

Just wanted to add a little input to the comment on the 40 yard cast.......It definately is possible. When I first started using my centerpin rig I would be lucky to be able to get out a 15 yard cast without a bird nest the size of Manhattan Island. Over the last couple months i've learned long casts are not really too difficult depending upon the style of cast used. I am definately not experienced enough yet to throw a 40 yard BC cast but depending on how much weight and the size of your float, as SteelheadBum said, the wallis/charged spool style of casting can allow for some nicely placed 30-40 yard casts. I know silversides can attest for this after a cold march day on the grand wading deep where 40 yard casts were neccessary to reach the section of a large hole where there were quite a few of actively feeding fish.

[gomer]

I dont think you guys really realize how long a 40 yard cast is. 120 feet is longer than most spey lines on the market.... Besides, why would you need to cast that far to begin with. 120 feet is wider than most michigan streams. I used to be into spey fishing, then i sold my gear to buy a pin. I realized I had fun fishing when I caught fish, not just when I had a flyrod in my hand...

[shotgunner]

Hello Bum. sorry it took so long to get back with you. there are so many diff rods and actions available it boggles the mind. blanks tailor made for specific casts and casting styles. many of the mid weight and heavier rods are plenty capable of tossing sinktips or full sinkers. some were mapped out specifically for that. most of the light ones though were never intended for dredging. an occasional light tip or poly sure, but more for dry lines than anything. these are the ones that i think would make a good float rod base, especially if you could get them in a little longer length.

i'm not real sure on the wall thickness comparison between a float blank and a spey but just taking a stab at it, it would seem to me that a generalization would be that a spey blank would have more power in the butt area with the float blank being softer overall. not neccessarily parabolic, but leaning towards that end of the scale. i might be way off here....... i'm certainly no authority, just someone with a passion for fishing rods.

i was searching for a piece by Dr. Way Yin, designer of the SA XLT long belly line and scott pro staff but couldn't relocate it. this one will work for now. its more to do with durability but illustrates the correlation between wall thickness & dia.

Below is a response to a similar question about thin walled blanks. The author is "GES" who posts regularly on Dan Blanton's board. He clearly knows a thing or 2 about rod design. It basically states that (1) high modulus materials and (2) thin walled blanks act together to increase susceptibility to damage. I did minor editing for grammar, and added emphases

----------------------

Larger diameter and thinner walls makes for a lighter rod (of a given stiffness and material). If you double the diameter and halve the wall thickness, you end up with the same weight roughly, but the rod will now be 4 times stiffer. For a thin walled rod the stiffness goes as the cube of the diameter and linearly with the wall thickness. If the walls are not thin compared to the diameter, then the stiffness goes as OD^4-ID^4; ie the difference in the fourth power of the outside and inside diameters.

So if you double the OD, you would have to reduce the wall thickness to 1/8th of what it was to get back to the same stiffness, so the rod would now be 1/4 of the original weight. So as you can see wall thickness gets thin in a hurry for a given size rod, and if you overdo the wall thinning, then the blank will fail due to buckling.

In principle you could make the rod a foot in diameter, but the walls would be so thin that if you blew on them they would collapse like a cigarette paper. So personally I prefer rods that are a bit smaller in diameter and with thicker walls, even though that makes them heavier for a given line size rod. The established manufacturers have been up and down this road till they are blue in the face, and they are always trying to find a better optimum that the customers like better.

If you want you 12 weight rod to weigh two ounces, then you use larger diameter thinner wall, and never ever Clouser the tip, or lean it up against anything hard.

As for impact damage, a typical test laminate of S2 fiberglass (or Kevlar for that matter) is from six to ten times more resistant to impact damage than a carbon one. When you take into account that carbon rods have much less material in them than glass ones, that makes them even more flimsy. Once again the problem is accidental application of forces or loads where they ain't supposed to be.

Some of those tiny SAGE rods I saw Jamie Lyle with at Tom's shindig, will probably last till the next millenium if you just trout fish with them, but if you rap them on the tree overhead, they weren't designed for that.

For rods that use the internal plug Ferrule like Scott does, it is very hard to make such a ferrule with a thicker wall blank, because you can't make the ferrule spigot stiff enough to preven getting a knee there. The typical solution is to make them solid, and cram a heck of a lot of fiber in them and use a much higher modulus fiber for the spigot.

I dont think you guys really realize how long a 40 yard cast is. 120 feet is longer than most spey lines on the market....

Gomer, are you refering to everyone here or just the spey portion? i had to chuckle when i saw your post because i was thinking of posting the same thing reversed!....LOL... 40 yds is a lonnnnnnnng distance. way out of my reach with either method. if any of you guys in post #17 or #18 could possibly show me one, on dry ground even, not necessarily "wading deep" i'd be indebted to you. i'd even buy drinks for all! no kidding........ anywhere from the M.O. north. not trying to be a disk head, i'd just like to see that cast.

i fish with any & all types of gear certainly not just fly tackle. most of my fly fishing is done here around home on the upper big M for residents. i've not had much luck swinging flies for steel....... i still enjoy it though. my oldest friends think i'm nuts and i sometimes wonder myself. i do some drift fishing with them and we have plenty of fun. you [I] cant fish alone all the time. the float rod is reserved mainly for cold water work, when its to miserable or there are just so few fish around that a self imposed handicap would be nuts.

SG

thought i'd edit in a disclaimer. the short piece below is just for fun and to show what a spey cast can achieve. people have always stretched sports to the extreme, regardless of the practical use. i dont know anything about pin rods & distance but its not hard to see where some more weight would really help out. i always tried to keep my terminal as light as i could, no fun when wind started bossing the cast.



Records tumble, and 60 yards is history !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just back from the National Game Fair (held in Ireland each June), and watched Scott Mackenzie set a new world record (a mammoth 60.5 yard Speycast ) in the Open Spey competition.
Conditions were calm with a slight cross-wind.
This cast was achieved in the qualifying rounds of the competition, the final being tomorrow.
My guess is this man isn`t finished yet, and I can see him beat his new record soon, maybe very soon.
Scott was using a new Daiwa 18` rod, and his usual 9/10 XLT line.
What a cast, and what a gentleman.
Many congratulations Scott !

[Northlander]

Lastly, you can cover ALOT of water with Spey rods. I'd like to see someone make a 40-yd cast with a centrepin.


Making a 40 yard cast is merely not needed. Besides, I want to see you float your strike indicator up to a 80+ yards or more on a extremely large river run (if needed). I would rather use the current to my advantage as far as my line slowy pulling off the reel, keeping my line tight, thus already preparing me to setting the hook.

I've watched many individuals throw them spey rods around time & time again. Nothing to this day still convinces me to ever use one. Common sense tells me when your whipping that oversized fly rod stick over the hole, with that noisy line hitting the water (especially during extreme clear water), it seems to me that it would scare the fish away.

I prefer to present my offering in a more realistic way. Spey fishing to me is no where near realistic. Besides, I'm not one for the fashion for fishing band wagon.

[steelhead1621]

spey fishing isnt really that tiring on your arms at all. i think its just a preference on whether you like to flyfish or spin fish. spey fishing takes a little more patience because you obviously dont have any scented baits like spinning stuff but when a big old lake brown or steelhead smacks your streamer it is very rewarding.

[TheSteelheadBum]

Shotgunner & Gomer,

I at least do realize how long 40 yards is and with a 14 gram float with the proper weighting for the float could "sidecast" 40 yards if not I would be
very close. As with a spey rod casting over head it is not that hard to cast a entire spey line "with a fast action spey rod" Although there is absolutely no need for it and you could not mend the line at that distance the cast is possible. Shotgunner you really willing to buy the drinks? Could be a very expensive evening lol.

[TheSteelheadBum]

Shotgunner that is a lot of very interesting info. I would have to agree with you for the most part a more traditional action "slower action" would be the ideal float rod action in most cases. A faster action would be better out west where heavier leaders are used and you need more muscle to combat larger fish and heavier flows. There are just so many variables in the whole scenario it is almost impossible to completely figure it out. I just wish they would make high end spey rods in a traditional action in the 6-7 weight range that are at least 14 foot long to have a true comparison:) . When they do I will be purchasing the blank for a custom rod....

[shotgunner]

darn it, i somehow knew things were going to go 'metric' @ some point... how much weight in good ol'e std american terms would it take to properly weight a 14 gram float?

i don't doubt at all that the cast could be made. i just dont think many out there are capable. again i could easily be wrong. probably should have never commented on it, Gomer just lit me up a little. if i dont know something for sure i'll either make it clear in the post or just not post at all.

that bit at the end of my post about the 60+ yd cast was a spey cast, not an over head, complete with PVC running line. no light mono rigged up shooting head style there.

this thread has gone seriously off topic......... never meant to promote some sort of rivalry. i fish whatever i feel like for the day, week, or season. its all good....

SG

[TheSteelheadBum]

14 grams is a half ounce. It is probably more than you would need to make the cast. No rivalry here:) . Maybe we could set up a jousting match. Spey Rods vs. Float Rods winner takes the trophy for ultimate way to fish award:lol: 60+ yards!!! That is a long spey cast. I definitely could not do that!!! So no free drinks? LOL j/k.....

[shotgunner]

bum, sent p.m. re the free drinks ;)

[Treven]

Shotgunner,

I know 40 yd casts w/ a CP are not out of the question, because I have seen my buddy cast from the sand bar straight across to the Wellston side above the coffer at Tippy and hit the first run from the bank. There was no one over there fishing obviously and no wind from his back, but he was using an AER Cedar rod he tied himself (spey conv.) and a 20g Zeppler. If he used braid, he could have put it on the bank easily! I'm pretty sure I can chuck'em about 30 yds with my St. Croix Avid, maybe more. I'm going to go to the football field sometime and see for sure!

Later guys,

Trev

[Speyday]

40 yards? No problem. Covering water? My friend.........unless youve seen it, I can understand where you may be coming from. BUT.....once that float starts going downstream, your only limitations in covering water are 1. running it all the way down around a bend in the river, or 2. Losing sight of the float because its so far away. I too, have stood on the sandbar, and although i wasn't a good caster, was easily putting mine 3/4 a way to the wellston side. The pinner I met that day was actually fishing the inside seam of it! No kidding.

Here's some proportion/perspective. At Berrien springs, I can and have regularly stood right next to the fish ladder, cast straight across and practically tap the buoy, then let my rig go all the way downstream to past where the island starts. Thats covering water. Thats what you can do when you know how to really cast a pin. Don't get me wrong.....Speys do it to, but they do it by scribing an arc, rather than running a straight path/lane from the "splash down" point.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't dare do that type of casting/drifting in a crowd at B.S.; but in winter....................

[shotgunner]

Treven, i never said i thought it was out of the question. i just dont think it would be that common.

i never doubted it could be done..... what i doubt is that the majority out there are going to accomplish it. its starting to sound as though a 40 yard pin cast may be alot more common than a 40 yard spey cast though. i'm not the fella who tossed the "40 yard" figure into the fray either.

i know exactly what 40 yds looks like, thats why the figure carries so much weight with me. years of shooting sports & hunting with a vintage recurve taught me that. i suppose i did kinda shoot my mouth off in post #19 but the drinks offer still stands to the three people it originally covered. i just thought there was quite a casual unconcerned air involved for that amount of distance, especially when deep wading. there is a world of diff in 30 and 40 yds. seems like you can get to a certain point without much trouble but then sweat and swear and maybe bleed for what little you can gain from there.

i'd be super impressed to see it done by anyone, though it would have to limeted to the 14 grm float setup. 1/2 oz is a figure i'm familier with and more than i've ever ran drift fishing other than a couple times with xtreme high water combined with wind. you can have the weight of the float for free though ... ;)...LOL..

gladly pack a cooler for casters & spectators alike along with my 100'...err..150' tape.

again, not trying to offend or tic anyone off. i do know what 40 yds is and it would be a cast to see!

thanks...... SG

[Treven]

Got ya dude, I'm not ticked off or anything, just sharing my little wealth of knowledge I've aquired;)

Have a good one!,

Trev

[Steelheadfred]

I can cast my center pin 40 yards all though it took some practice and experiementing to get what sytle, weight, and launch angle to toss it at.

Float rods are a lot lighter than spey rods......at least the ones I use and I own both. The tapers are so different and as mentioned wall thickness also. I tend to like a stiffer than average rod even for running 6lb leaders with my pin.

But after building many float rods and a few spey rods. I have come to the conclusion that the ultimate float rod would be a 9 weight butt section, an 8 weight butt section and a fast action 6 weight tip.

Cedar Rods in Bath has come up with one that is close but still more of a spey feel than a float feel to the rod.

[Treven]

SteelheadFred,

I completely agree with that and have caught one steelie on a Cedar rod, nice rods, but a little beefy for my taste. It sure can chuck floats a LONG way though! A few weekends ago I was talking to Mike-The Rod Doctor and he told me he is working with Loomis to create a 15' blank for AER that is a blend of GL3 and IMX to create a light blank much like the 13' @ 4.2 oz (new info, sorry for the change!)

Just thought I would share for those interested...

Later,

Trev

[TheSteelheadBum]

I can't wait for that to come out!!! There goes another few big bills on one of those gotta have fishing rods. Thanks for the info Treven.

[Hex4steel]

Shotgunner......


Although I'm not taking a stab, coming from "post #17"..........


I would love a free drink and by the sounds of it you would like to see a 40 yard cast...........


PM on the place to meet....... :D

[Treven]

Turns out I recieved incomplete info as my friend got ahold of me through another site;) The butt of the blank is GL3, the middle is the new blend and the tip is IMX as opposed tothe 13' now which is GL2 butt, GL3 middle, and IMX tip. Sorry for the confusion, I wish I would have talked to my buddy first, before going off the other info I recieved:dizzy:

Later guys,

Trev

[UBDSLO1]

Great reading here guys. I'm new to "pinning" as well, but have yet to get the goods so far. This coming fall I'll have a pin set-up.

Does anyone here pin for chinook? Giant size chunks of skein under floats...

I'm also wondering if a Ugly Stik Lite blank 13ft would be a good flaot rod.:lol: I'm joking guys.:D

[shotgunner]

your inbox is stuffed. hope you wont mind me placing it here.

Hello Hex....

let me start with a sincere apology for calling you out directly through a forum thread, very inappropriate on my part. hope you'll excuse me in the spirit of a good debate[?]

i'd buy you a beer anytime, bet or no...

i'd love to see you cast if we can arrange a mutual location.

thanks...... SG

[Hex4steel]

No harm, no foul.......as previously stated "all in the spirit of a good debate". And the apology is greatly appreciated although unnecessary. All in a days work of discussing internet fishing ethics :D


As far as meeting.......I am not sure where you hail from but as of right now I am living in Sault St. Marie(thus, centerpinning the rapids quite frequently, attempting to perfect that 40 yard cast w/o loosing 100 yards of line lol). I will shortly be moving back to the Lansing area for work this summer between college semesters and fishing skamania as much as possible. This is the only suitable time I could see us meeting so keep in touch, I will try to PM when I am in the area. In the mean time, good luck and tightlines

[shotgunner]

Hex, thanks for being understanding.

i travel through the soo several times a season. possible i could catch you up there, i'll try a p.m. @ the time. Tippy is my southern boundary after mid may, i get pretty intent on the residents locally until late fall. if you enjoy chasing them let me know, be glad to take you out.

one reason for the scepticism is my own lack of skill with a c.p. the fishing i've done has all been on smaller tribs in the coldest water periods .125 - .250 oz was/is std weighting little bit...LOL.. i'm clueless on the 'gram' speak :)] i have seen a few individuals placing very nice casts with obviously ultra light setups. thats where i'd like to be someday........

if someone makes or witnesses the cast with 14 grm max setup please post back or let me know through p.m. just to ease my mind..... thanks. SG

[Treven]

You can side cast that weight very easily, especially on smaller streams. Casting that little of weight off the spool is an art in my opinion, it is hard to chrage the spool enough.

I think it depends a lot on the rod!

Have a good one,

Trev