Hunting pressure ?

[GRUNDY]

I think that the extreme hunting pressure placed on the deer is probably the biggest factor with the lack of satisfaction among Michigan deer hunters. Leading to many fixes such as QDM, MARS, Mandatory checks etc... I think the biggest contributing factor to the lack of deer and deer sightings is pressure. Perhaps this is the real cause, and more restriction or different management will only result in minor differences in the overall satisfaction of deer hunting. I have the fortune of hunting prime private land during gun season, it gets pressured HARD From Oct,1 through gun season. As the pressure has grown deer sightings have declined. I say sightings because the tracks and other rut sign prove otherwise.

What y'all think?

Brian

[Wizard3686]

that has nothing to do with it around where we hunt we know for a fact that in the 2 areas we hunt there is no one else that hunts them and we have been seeing fewer deer every year this year we seen maybe 20 total durning the whole season and that includes behind our house at night

[wagoneer]

I agree that pressure had a big influence on sightings in the area I hunted. It is state land and for some reason, it got a ton of pressure this year. I thought the deer numbers were down myself in the area, until I made into an inside corner between some large chunks of private land and their were tracks EVERYWHERE. The deer had been chased onto the more lightly hunted parcels.

[Luv2hunteup]

Alot has been talked about regarding lack of sightings including statements by Clute and others in the DNR. Michigan has lots of hunters which means lots of hunting pressure. Michigan also has lots of accessible land that doesn't ever see a hunter due to low deer numbers but that may be changing.

See page 11 for hunter numbers and page 12 for hunting pressure by season.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/report3444_135086_7.pdf

Right now there is a proposal in Lansing to stop hunter access to CFA land and still give these large land owners huge tax breaks. In the UP this amounts to about 1/3 of the land (about 2 million acres) that is open public access for hunting. If this bill passes you can expect more land to be put into program placing more land off limits and higher deer hunters per acre on the remaining public land.

Here's a link, check it out. http://www.mucc.org/Forestry.htm

Michigan's current economic conditions makes purchasing hunting land a real bargin. It will never get any better than it is right now, maybe now is the time to consider it. Here's some things to ponder, Clute states that the best habitat (private) will have the most deer, the state is not planning on doing anything to change what they own, federal land is going to old growth management and CFA land will soon be off limits. Throw away your sun glasses the future is not bright. In the year 2015, deer season 2005 will be called the good ole days.

[sandbur3]

A similar bill to yours on CFA lands went thru our governent a few years ago. Now many of the commercial forest lands are being leased to hunters. Hunters find lands that have hunted for generations are now posted. Public lands behind the commercial forest lands sometimes are no longer accessible. If you are one of the lease holders, great. For the rest of the hunters it is not so great.

The industries still get the tax break on the lands. Previously, you had to allow public access if you got the tax break and had over about 900 acres. The acre limitation was dropped, so no company had to allow public access. The bill went thru the government with very little notice.

Sadly, as many forest product industries merge or sell to other companies, industrial lands are also being sold for development.

[Gilbey]

Liv to Hunt, is there any way that you could start a new post on this finding? I hate to hijack this post, but do you know how close or how this bill is favored?

Thanks

A VERY scary proposal for our group's hunting to say the least.

[Swamper]

Hunting pressure is certainly a big factor among a few.

Swamper

[Belbriette]

> Grundy,

What is a lack of satisfaction ???

A long time ago, when I was a teen-ager ..., I hunted on a territory where deer were very scarce : at that time I frequently felt very frustrated ...

Very many years later, with a few other shareholders, I came to lease a more than 3.000 acres hunting territory, half of it had not been hunted for over 20 years ...
The red deer population was extremely high, way above what was good for it and for the forest ...

As a result, we had to strongly lower the density, and I had to personnally take the largest part of this goal.

At first, I was a very happy hunter ...

After a few years, I totally changed my thinking :
True hunting is to search, to pursue and eventually capture ...
When, even for the best of the species, capture becomes very easy, it takes all the meaning and all the "fun" out of hunting.

This why I ended to totally stop hunting 20 years ago ...

Friendly yours,

[One Eye]

Right now there is a proposal in Lansing to stop hunter access to CFA land and still give these large land owners huge tax breaks. In the UP this amounts to about 1/3 of the land (about 2 million acres) that is open public access for hunting. If this bill passes you can expect more land to be put into program placing more land off limits and higher deer hunters per acre on the remaining public land.

Here's a link, check it out. http://www.mucc.org/Forestry.htm

We may want to do more research on this, as I am hearing conflicting interpretations on this measure. I am following another thread on a different board that actually has quoted several hunting groups and legal experts as saying this measure would actually strengthen public. Since I am not a lawyer, I am not arguing either way. If your interpretation is different, I too would very very concerned and will contact my State Senator, who happens to be on listed on that MUCC page.

Dan

[Overdraw]

Hunting pressure doesn't do anything to the deer herd.

If you don't have a doe tag, you don't kill the animals that will give birth in the spring. Almost every healthy doe will have twins, you can do the math. One doe, we lose three deer next year. I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot girls, I took a buck and a doe this year. I do think, however that the state is allowing too many doe permits to be sold.

Pressure makes deer run. Available tags will reduce the population.

[weatherby]

I think that the extreme hunting pressure placed on the deer is probably the biggest factor with the lack of satisfaction among Michigan deer hunters. Leading to many fixes such as QDM, MARS, Mandatory checks etc... I think the biggest contributing factor to the lack of deer and deer sightings is pressure. Perhaps this is the real cause, and more restriction or different management will only result in minor differences in the overall satisfaction of deer hunting. I have the fortune of hunting prime private land during gun season, it gets pressured HARD From Oct,1 through gun season. As the pressure has grown deer sightings have declined. I say sightings because the tracks and other rut sign prove otherwise.

What y'all think?

Brian


I agree to a point. I see the same thing in a spot where i hunt. Go shining at night and you'll see how many deer are still around but nocturnal

[ROSCORack]

I agree its a major factor.
Between oct 15th and nov 11th last year I logged seeing 15 different bucks. My total sightings of bucks was 21, some of which I seen multiple times. 6 was seen oct 15th-30th, 9 was seen oct 31st-nov 11th. I had vacation 11th-22nd and the only buck I seen was a spike and I only had a restricted tag left. The magical time seems year after year Oct-31st-Nov-10th. It seems the bucks have a calender and know exactly when opening day is. But in all reality its the extra pressure in the woods .

There are some other factors like deer changing food patterns at that time a year also will effect where you normally see deer, among others.

[GRUNDY]

I agree its a major factor.
Between oct 15th and nov 11th last year I logged seeing 15 different bucks. My total sightings of bucks was 21, some of which I seen multiple times. 6 was seen oct 15th-30th, 9 was seen oct 31st-nov 11th. I had vacation 11th-22nd and the only buck I seen was a spike and I only had a restricted tag left. The magical time seems year after year Oct-31st-Nov-10th. It seems the bucks have a calender and know exactly when opening day is. But in all reality its the extra pressure in the woods .

There are some other factors like deer changing food patterns at that time a year also will effect where you normally see deer, among others.

That's what I was getting at. All of the people in the woods for the 2-3 days up to and after gun season totally mess up the deer's regular routine, causing them to go nocturnal. Also a high pressure state like Michigan is less likely to produce what many would consider quality hunting.

For example: 1998, Big Rapids area, hunted all bow seson and only ran into one other guy hunting in the same general area, saw lots of does, couple bucks. Opening day of gun season, no joke, 10 CARS parked where I would normally park. There was pumpkins in the woods every 75-100 yards. There was no way you could hunt with that many guys in the woods. All the gunshots and people dragging does around the two tracks told the story, next season was a flop and I switched areas. Needless to say I was one disatisfied hunter that opening day, infact I only spent 1/2 hour in the woods, some fool was in my blind in the morning.

This situation happens to ALOT of people every opening day in Michigan, this kind of pressure is no good for the deer or any sort of hope for a quality hunt. To top it off all this pressure is put on the deer during the RUT! Of all times to have 1 million gun hunters in the woods, it has to be during RUT! The convergence of the highest deer activity and the highest number of the most effective deer killers in the woods. Simple logic will tell you that its not a good thing.

Brian

[Pinefarm]

The annual phenomenon of rapidly decreasing buck sightings after Nov. 17 and as the season wears on isn't because hunting 'pressure' per se, it's because of mortality. By Nov. 18, you won't see many bucks in many area's of the state because 85% of them are dead by then.

[Sib]

No doubt pressure is a huge factor in deer sightings. I hunt some good private land in the banana belt of the U.P. in Nov. 300 acres and we're pretty cautious about moving around (only one or two bow hunts in Oct). Even with 300 acre the movement of neighbors scouting their property, the added traffic on two trackers, the sudden show up of bait around us, the sighting in at camp throughout the state and the deer quickly learn to hunker down. The more mature animals are on edge the weekend before the gun opener.

I think one of the best gun season techniques is to hunt the escape routes to the thick stuff. They can usually be found in the funnels and brushy connectors from wood lot to wood lot. The deer won't be charging through them, but they'll be moving with purpose and moving toward the beds and on edge and bed down during daylight. You might have to stop them with a snort, or a grunt call, because it's usually pretty dense with underbrush. I've had some good success with the technique.

In my opinion, pressure is a huge factor and by gun opener deer are already modifying their behavior and the more age to the animal, the more chance he'll already have switched to nocturnal. I think that's a huge factor as to why the a high persentage of 1.5 year olds get killed, the more mature animals, with the wisdom of experience, know to change their routine when more people enter the woods, bait piles start showing up, generators echo through the woods...etc.

[NorthJeff]

We get lots of pressure by us in WI on our lease...but the deer still move all around during daylight hours, until they get shot opening day of Rifle. Same with PA public land...big differance though, NO BAIT. Makes a big differance in how much deer move during the daytime. That's one of the main reasons I love going to PA. We'll get some disease at some point soon and some of you guys will wonder why we baited the last 20 years after we end it...makes an incredible differance. Bait=pressure. For now though, for many it would be tough to hunt without bait, but if every one is forced to stop, it will make a world of differance in especially northern areas with low food sources.

[bigsablemike]

if it did 75% of the "hunters" in mi. wouldnt know what to do they wouldnt be able to shoot their 4pt so they wouldnt but licences.dnr would loose money. no bait, mandtory ars,and only one doe permit and see what hunting would be like in mi.

[.480]

Hunting pressure is HUGE in making deer nocturnal.
I put out trail cameras on a farm that starts "crop damage shooting"
in June. The deer start to move about 2 to 3 hours after dark.
If I put the cameras out 1/2 mile away from the same location withouth the shooting the deer get their pictures taken at all times of the day.