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View Full Version : One Buck Reasoning-My Opinion




Pinefarm
02-03-2006, 12:47 PM
I think many of us are missing the big picture when we read that the "the entire NRC would vote for a one buck rule", as Bob Graner said, as long as they could find a way to make the budget work.
It isn't mainly bucks that they're thinking about, it's does. The population goals they have set for the state, and especially the SLP, will be unachievable unless they limit the amout of buck tags a hunter can buy. As long as a hunter has 2 buck tags in his pocket, he's much more unlikely to fill an antlerless tag, even if he has several antlerless tags.
Here's my analogy. Say you have 2 children side by side. You give one child a tray with 2 hotdogs and a bowl of broccoli. You give the other a tray with 1 hotdog and a bowl of broccoli. If you tell them they can eat until they're full, the child with 2 hotdogs will probably eat just the 2 hotdogs and not touch the broccoli. On the other hand, the child with only one hotdog is still going to eat his dog, but there's a very good chance that he'll still be hungry and eat some of his broccoli.
The problem with 2 buck tags isn't just the practice of shooting the first buck many see regardless of how small and only then becoming selective, the problem is also hunters letting countless antlerless deer walk by when they have an antlerless permit, but are holding out for a buck because they know they have 2 buck tags to burn for the year.
The social behavior of letting a big doe walk by when you have a perfectly good antlerless tag in your pocket has to be modified somewhat. The harvest order is currently backwards. Currently hunters pass does to wait for any buck. If I'm reading Lansing correctly, they now want hunters to possibly pass more bucks and wait for a doe to show up to fill the freezer. But even more so than under the current regs. I believe that's been the whole point of these population meetings.
I also have to say, if this is the case, MDNR is doing a very fine job of framing up the changes. And the changes make even more sense.
One buck tag isn't about bucks, it's about does.

One other point, the idea of making a 2nd, more expensive buck tag was thrown around. It does have merit, but again, we fall into that trap of hunters being able to get 2 buck tags and not killing the does MDNR wants killed. On top of it, we run across this problem. If a hunter has already filled his regular buck tag and he has an antlerless permit, how many guys do you think will just hunt with that antlerless tag and only go buy that $100 buck tag only AFTER that 2nd buck is on the ground? In the real world, I bet it's a bunch. So basically, you'd have guys buck hunting, but doing it on the cheap with their antlerless tag until they got antlers on the ground. Since 75% of our hunters hunt private land, this would become more common.
Nope, for MDNR to achieve their population goals, I don't know how they do it without going to one buck only. My .02




Pinefarm
02-03-2006, 12:51 PM
One more thing, I also believe that any rules or laws about having to offer certain tags, like Archery, Firearms or Combo could be quickly amended in Lansing when this new budget package goes through. So there really isn't anything stopping major changes. I'm not saying one buck change, I just mean ANY major changes.

Nick Adams
02-03-2006, 01:19 PM
I think many of us are missing the big picture...

It's refreshing to see a post thats actually about deer management.

Thanks, Bob.

Some of us like brocolli better than hotdogs.

-na

Liv4Huntin'
02-03-2006, 01:24 PM
.. and good points, Bob. Thanks.
~ m ~

Swamper
02-03-2006, 01:44 PM
Great post Bob.

In a bigger picture look, I think we are starting to see greater energy and mass around the goals of deer management, future generations of hunters, and working together as a unified team to achieve those. There seem to be a few groups splintering, but overall, we are headed in the right direction and goals.

Swamper

farmlegend
02-03-2006, 02:23 PM
Outstanding, Bob, well put. Good illustration. It's been said many times, accurately, I believe, that we'll never reach our deer density goals in the southern lower until we do something new to restrict buck harvest. Issuing a billion private land antlerless tags in areas where they never even sell out, let alone get used, has not worked. 49 days of gun hunting (general firearms + extended muzzleloader + late antlerless + youth hunt) hasn't even worked.

spice64
02-03-2006, 02:30 PM
1 Buck

Trophy Specialist
02-03-2006, 05:02 PM
What you are forgetting is that the general consensus at every one of the DNR's deer herd goal meetings around the state was that the vast majority of hunters do not want the herd reduced any more and in fact most wanted it increased. There are certainly some areas in some DMUs where deer numbers are overpopulated on private lands, but it is my opinion that the vast majority of Michigan has a deer herd that is eithor at or below goal. If a one-buck limit would really have an impact on reducing deer numbers, then the first organization you’d see behind it would the Farm Bureau and that is not the case. Please show us one shred of proof that a one-buck limit resulted in the reduction of a deer herd. I can show you proof where it has actually done the oposit.

It would be much more productive to focus your energy towards other proven deer management techniques that would have a much more positive impact on overall deer management and herd reduction where needed.

Whit1
02-03-2006, 07:15 PM
Great post Bob!

Munsterlndr
02-03-2006, 09:20 PM
Interesting thread concerning the One Buck Rule from the Indiana Sportsman site. It adds some outside perspective.

http://www.indianasportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1523

Here is another longer thread on the same topic. I thought posts #49 and #53 in this thread especially interesting since they show an outsiders perception of Michigan deer hunting.

http://www.indianasportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1337&page=1&pp=15

November Sunrise
02-04-2006, 06:13 AM
Interesting thread concerning the One Buck Rule from the Indiana Sportsman site. It adds some outside perspective.

http://www.indianasportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1523



I love the quote attributed to the biologist - "they're seeing a change in buck age structure but they can't attribute it to anything".:lol: Shows how someone's bias can override things that are self evident.

jimmyboy
02-04-2006, 08:01 AM
If the object of a one buck license is to increase doe kills, here's a proven method to attain that goal while maintaining the current combo's. Hold mid-Oct antlerless only firearm seasons beginning on a Sat and commencing for nine days. Proved successful in taking down the NELP herd. IT WORKS.

One Eye
02-04-2006, 11:57 AM
If the object of a one buck license is to increase doe kills, here's a proven method to attain that goal while maintaining the current combo's. Hold mid-Oct antlerless only firearm seasons beginning on a Sat and commencing for nine days. Proved successful in taking down the NELP herd. IT WORKS.

Rod Clute states that the biologists actually fear the opposite will happen. They believe that more hunters will quit hunting once they no longer have a buck tag in their possession (even if if it a restricted tag), which in turn will "reduce" the doe kill, especially in areas where the doe kill needs to be increased.

Bob, since you quoted the NRC's position on one buck tag vs. two, perhaps you should post the BIOLOGIST's positions. After all, aren't they the ones that should be making these decisions, not political appointees? I thought we were ALL for these decisions being made for BIOLOGICAL reasons???

Dan

jimmyboy
02-04-2006, 01:48 PM
One Eye,I'm talking about reaching population goals by using purchased antlerless permits during mid-Oct antlerless seasons - NOT combo's! This allows continued current license usage across the board. Nothing to change.