Deer Goals and the state of our herd now

[hondodeerhunter]

In light of the recent DNR public imput meetings held around the state, none close enough for myself to be able to attend easily, I am wondering what all the hunters think of the state of the herd in MI. I have been hunting for 7 years now, as I am young, and I have seen a massive decline in large bucks and large does where I hunt, in the southeast region of Newaygo county. All I saw this past firearm and bow seasons were small yearlings, button and small bucks and small does of just over a year old. The past 3 years becoming worse for the numbers of deer and size of deer seen in the entire deer season, making this year the worst in spite of hunting farmland and planting food plots. I want you to respond, should the DNR stop the unlimited doe permits and go back to a one doe, one buck per hunter season rule? What have you seen hunting in Newaygo County or in the rest of Mich? What do you think needs to be done? I have proposed a poll above of some solutions that maybe you would like or dislike.

[redneckman]

We just need to reduce the number of deer being shot. I could go out shinning and see hundreds of deer 5 years ago. Now i go out and see 20. You described my hunting this last year hondodeerhunter. Saw 2 5pts and those where in bow season. We should also have antler resrictions.

Redneckman

[Thunderhead]

I haven't seen a difference since I started hunting 30 years ago. There's just as many deer today, if not more, than there was then. At least in my hunting area.

I do my homework and kill wallhangers every year ( knock on wood ) on high pressured private ground.

My opinion ? I think if guys left their baitpile / foodplot, whatever they watch in hopes that a deer comes in and looked for the sign/brusiers, figured'em out and actually hunted them, you'd see alot more big bucks killed.

Side note : I'M NOT PUTTING ANYBODY DOWN HERE.


I've heard the old " I haven't got the time to scout and hunt for long periods of time, so I bait. "
Hey, that's fine.
BUT, your not going to consistantly see or kill big bucks unless you put in the time.
That's just the way it is.

I think that were not seeing the deer not because our herd sucks, but because the style of hunting them have changed for the mainstream.

The deer haven't changed, the average hunter has.

[Gilbey]

Thunder, that's pretty much my feelings as well. I may not kill a wallhanger every year. But I do see mature bucks every year.

Time is a lot of it, doing it right is part of it too. My best friend at camp can't figure how I see so many bucks.

My time scouting, alot. His, none. My time bow hunting, ALOT. His, none. # of stands, 6. His, one ground blind. Scent free? Best as can be. Him, nope. Me sitting over bait? Sure, sometimes. Him, always on same pile. Time total spent hunting? Couple of months verses less than a week.

Wonder why I see 20 or more bucks than him per year????

I'll put some huge disclaimers on this one though. The Northern crest of the UP (big snow country) has really gone on a downslide for sheer numbers of game. I know there's been a lot of talk of the migration/yards etc, but to do something would almost be like micromanaging certain tasks of the DMU's. I really don't know if this is possible. Maybe with additional force, spread out the management hierarchy, but fees would need to pay for this. It's two separate worlds from the northern rugged terrain to the farms of lower Michigan.

[Thunderhead]

Good point on the stand sites. You have to be mobile and be able to move at a moments notice.

Most of the bigger bucks I've killed I've killed the same day I set up over a different location. I have over 18 different stands, some within only 20 or so yards of each other, wind direction dictates where I'll set on any given day.

******** Change your hunting techniques needs to be added to the list of choices ********

[Sib]

I think deer numbers are getting back to where they have been traditionally (looking back 40 years). I feel the 90s had unheathily, high numbers of deer. I feel some hunters might be looking back at that 90s period as the norm, when it was anything but. Now that things are settling back where they should be, people that didn't hunt 20 years ago, or who have a short memory are becoming alarmed.

I didn't see any of the poll selections that I feel would do much in terms of overall hunter satisfaction, I feel regardless of the situation some will always be dissatisfied and look to hang their blame on something. The one thing I feel would be best for deer hunters in Michigan would be habitat improvement in the upper 2/3 of the state. I feel improving the habitat will help improve the have nots chances and hopefully prevent the class warfare that is brewing among hunters in this state.

[Rustyaxecamp]

Very good (accurate) points being made, but one that is 100% dead nuts true is Thunders point of "The deer haven't changed, the average hunter has".

I agree the deer numbers are different than what they were. Better or Worse, I don't know. Define Better or Worse....

My family hunts in the Lake Superior blast zone. We don't see a ton of deer, actually we see very few deer, but we see about 50% bucks and about 50% of those are decent (7 pts or better). I wouldn't expect anything else, it's a tough place to live (for people and critters).

I live in Midland, in high school (early 90s) I could drive around shining and like a previus poster said, see 100's of deer, including some hoss bucks. I did quite well hunting around here then too. Now it is much different (lot less deer). Did kill at will on does have an affect, I think yes. Was the population too high back then, probably.

Back to Thunderheads comment, "The deer haven't changed, the average hunter has". 3/4s of the MI hunters expect they should be able to stumble onto the nearest lot of state land and it should be like Team Realtree or something. I think hunters need to take a step back and think before we start lynching the DNR, NRC, whoever. I am not saying they are doing a great job, but they hold meetings to get our input and all they get is guys ranting and raving, not getting anything constructive done. Give em a break guys, do you really think they wake up in the morning and think, "How can I screw up this guys deer season?"

[Backwoods-Savage]

Like Sib, I remember too what the deer herd was (only I look back a little further that Sib) and I have been amazed at the growth of the deer herd over the years. I haven't hunted up north for a few years so can not speak too much on that, but by reading posts from others, it sounds as if the herd is getting back to what it once was.

However, when I started hunting up north in the late 50's and early 60's, the older hunters were really screaming then because there just were not many deer. They remembered what the 40's were like and the herd decreased drastically in the late 50's and 60's. For instance, in the U.P. many hunters could hunt for a week and see anywhere from 1 to 5 deer in the entire week. Being young, I knew no difference so covered lots of ground to find deer sign.

I will say that baiting was unheard of where I hunted in my early years and I never really became aware of people putting out big bunches of bait until in the 70's. Then during the 80's it really caught on. Anyone who baited (I knew of one fellow) when I started hunting may have put out an apple or two when they got to their chosen site for the day, but that's about it.

I'll never forget the night that Mort Neff, on Michigan Outdoors reported that the deer kill in MI finally reached 100,000. What a milestone that was! Don't remember for sure but it seems to me the buck kill was maybe 60,000 that year. It was about that time they started forecasting 1,000,000 deer as the goal for the MI deer herd. My, how time has changed things.

Oh yes, I did not vote in the poll because I'd have to make only one choice. The problem is way too complex to make only one choice.

[mich buckmaster]

I would like to see a one buck rule throughout the state!!!!!!!

I am fine with the doe harvest in certain areas, but the buck harvest has to quit.

I agree with Thunderheads post 100%

[yooperkenny]

I agree with you guys above. The choices need to include:


Improve deer habitat in NLP/UP, and I'll add...
Limit the December killing of migrated does in the yarding areasIf the question is "How can I kill more quality deer?" then the answer is invest more of your time, hunt harder and smarter!

This ain't Team Realtree and anything worth havin is worth workin for! ;)

[tom wilde]

the deer in my area are just about gone went scouting on 400 acres never cut a track you tell me if this is better if you say thats how it is better than your so full of chit your eyes are brown really sad what i see in the public lands n that is on prime public land no more does you have too have does for bucks

[deerslayerhall]

I have been hunting public land my whole life (36 years) and I see as many deer now as ever. In my opinion the deer are smarter now than they were 20 years ago. When I first started bow hunting with my dad we could not use tree stands. After tree stands were made legal and we first started using them you would never see deer looking up into the trees at you. Now every year I get busted once or twice by deer looking up. Also on opening weekend the past two years (public land with no bait) I saw 19 deer last year and 17 deer this year over the weekend . Later in the month of October me and my gang take 10 days to go bow hunting. Last year for the 10 days I saw 2 deer and this year I saw 4 deer. I don't think this is a coincidence. By the way every morning around camp the area is littered with fresh deer tracks so I know there are still plenty out there.

[Nick Adams]

I didn't vote. The only change I would like to see at the state level is more CO's. That may be indirectly related to the higher fees choice.

I've been hunting over 25 years, all but the first couple on public land in the UP. I can't recall having a "bad" deer season.

I am satisfied with the numbers of deer in the places I hunt. In some places there are still too many for the health of the habitat.

The quality of my season has more to do with boorish behaviour of a small minority of fellow hunters (taking "possession" of public land, tearing down gates, using ATV's in areas they are prohibited, abandoning stands/blinds in the woods after the season is over, etc) than it does with the numbers of deer (or antler points) I see over the course of a season.

-na

[Ed Spin04]

It is true that hunters that work at the sport will invariably see more deer, bucks included. To say that hunters have changed their style is stretching it a bit.

My first year of deer hunting was in 1952 and I was thaught then by siome oldtimers that said the same thing some are posting here, "We don't hunt the way we did thirthy years ago". Sure hunting methods have changed, but I see it in the main of having a better chance of getting a deer per hour spent in the woods now than years ago, (not less).

This is not an endorsement for baiting, but baiting has made a big differance in improving the kill ratio per hunter. I agree it may not improve your chances for older bucks but we all know it has made a big differance for does , fawns and yearling bucks. I started bow hunting in 1958 and the stats then showed a 5% success rate for bow hunters, today it is close to 25%, a five fold increase. These are true stats and it blows away the presumption that the hunters today don't hunt as suiccessfully as days of old.

I see very little differance in the intensity of the hunting effort of the average hunter today versus 50 years ago. What we see now are more informed and consequently more successful matuure buck hunters and this is due in large part to the information now out there for them to absorb.

How about the bow equipment available now versus the early 1960's. The compound bow alone made a hugh differance in the success rate, how about the elevated blind? In the 50's we were taking about 60,000 deer yearly, now it is 400,000+ yearly, with most of these deer taken by weekend warriors.

In the main, "If you are not seeing deer there is a reason. They are not there".

[Ranger Ray]

Well said Ed.

[redneckman]

I think we should just get ride of baiting. I saw more bucks and bigger without bait piles around when tb was here. Hunted the same area with no baiting and with it. I think way to many little bucks, 6pts and under get shot off bait piles before they have a chance to grow. Not all though.

Redneckman

[Luv2hunteup]

My vote went for: Raise license fees to bring in more money for management

I would like to see a habitat stamp for dedicated funding for improved habitat for deer. The UP winter habitat is declining at an alarming rate. If nothing is done our UP deer numbers will return to what is was like in the late 60s.

Summer habitat is not a problem. Improving private land UP summer range is easy to accomplish, the wintering yards are mostly public land. Nothing has been done to help our UP winter deer habitat. Our DRIP funds have gone to purchase key habitats but nothing is done after that.

[One Eye]

If you feel the population is down in your area, stop shooting does! Pretty easy stuff, but it is amazing how many feel they HAVE to fill a tag to be successful.

Dan

[countryboy]

I also hunt southeast Newaygo co.For the last 3-4 yrs. I've seen less deer.First part of bow season, I'd see 10-20 deer at night.Last season I saw 5-6 , most were small does & fawns.I saw one buck.I would like to see antlerless permits limited to 2 per hunter for Newaygo co.I do most of my gun hunting in montcolm co. for 13 yrs. Every year I see less deer.