...Coldsteam Farm - Morse Nursery - Oikos Nursery...

[fairfax1]

Help me out folks, I have never bought a thing from any of these three retailers...but I drool over there internet sites and the description of their offerings.

What's your experience with any of 'em. Is what they post in their web sites credible?

What's the difference between one over the other?

Pretend you are Consumer Reports.

[mike hartges]

In my experience with them, Coldstream Farm is good. Others on this site have said good things about them as well.

[phensway]

morse nursery offers a QDMA discount....... last year they were selling 3 foot sawtooth oaks for 3 dollars!!! great people, family owned business!!!

[chasmo54]

Morse nursery is a wildlife specialized, Hybrid Oaks, containerized, roots air pruned or roots trapped in patened growing systems, Oikos is a specialty plant container and bareroot nursery and Coldsteam is a traditional commodities type plants, sold bareroot without any particular specializations that I can see. All come with good recommendations.

[Pinefarm]

We've gotten 10,000's of trees from CSF. I have virtually no complaints and only great things to say about them. We used to get trees from the local Soil/Cons co-op, but their tree sale is in April. With our schedule at the store with the steelhead run, we really can only plant the first week of May. CSF lets me pick up the first weekend in May. In fact, I was working on my Spring Coldstream order just an hour ago.

[chasmo54]

For every story I've hear like yours of success I've heard dozens of "Lack of success" with reguard to bare root plantings.
If your happy with your results and are getting what your getting to work for you great, however for the majority of weekend tree planters are not as happy or successful as you are! Containerized plants have superior advantages in planting windows of when you can plant them over bare root as well. Containerized plants can be planted all summer long because they don't need to be in their dormant state. A nice thing about planting later with containerized plants are that they are leafed out and you can tell if you paid for a real live tree or not, something not possible with bareroot.
It's also possible to fertilize containerized trees right away something not possible with trees that are in transplant shock.

[bishs]

Coldstream Farms, price is hard to beat anywhere. I have planted thousands of their trees and shrubs every year for the last 11 years. Container plants have a better chance, but WOW! Look at the price difference. To date, I have planted over 15,000 trees and shrubs, over 1/2 of these have been 1-2 foot transplants. My survival rate is very very good. I loose few. I don't care if their container or not, they need moisture. I either spray roundup around them, or mulch with sawdust or 3' x 3' plastic squares.

I tell Coldstream what day to ship them. Then I am ready to plant on the weekend. Planting later in the summer is not a good idea. Planting when moisture content is high, is important.

The Hardwood buisness 1 mile from my house has a huge sawdust pile. Anybody can come and fill up their trailer for free. A few scoops around each tree will do wonders...

For those who don't like the risk or bare root planting try this. Plant your order in the garden. Fence out the rabbits. Dump a few inches a sawdust or wood chips around them. Water them though the summer. Then move them when their larger with the ball of dirt. Works great..

:)

[bishs]

Here is another Nursery with great prices. A friend ordered trees last year, and said they were great. You can get 12" to 18" Norway spruce for .58 cents each, when you buy 1,000 or more...
New Life Nursery Holland Michigan

http://www.newlifenursery.com/

[chasmo54]

If your looking for special trees, trees with certain gennetics, or rare trees with performace chacteristics that are above and beyond the average trees you will almost certainly not find them retail at any price. These type of trees offered by Morse Nursery and Oikos Nursery are usually traded between plant breeders, herberiums, arboreums that exchange pollen and plant material in their efforts to breed a new and improved tree of some kind. These nurseries are at best appreciated by a few consumers that are "in the know" no offense intended but the more you know about working with precocious nut and fruit trees the more you would become excited about these plants being offered at any price. I'm not trying to say that you or anyone else is wrong about where or what they have purchased and planted, with your success it's obviously right for you. As is the case many times there is more than one right answer. People need to collect information and decide what is right for them. Balancing price against products offered is a personal decision and part of an enjoyable process.
I personally like planting unique plants that have an attitude! I already know what pure species will do, what's the fun in that? Just a side note here that between me and my neighbor we have planted over 75 thousand hybrid and grafted gennetically gifted trees. Many at $22 each plus 75 thousand tubes, stakes and mulch in the past 5 years. I would not ever consider purchasing a tree for the sake of a tree is a tree is a tree. In fact I would not even plant an ordinary tree if it was given to me free. Maybe someone will read this and motivate themselves to look around at other right answer plants and nursery's to purchase from. Even thought I don't agree with you and could never buy into purchasing trees the way you do for any price advantage. You have helped facilitate a dialogue of choice and other points of opinion for which is always helpful and healthly. For now I will agree to disagree!

[Pinefarm]

We've planted over 70,000 over the past 2 decades. We can only afford CSF's prices at the highest quantity and the smallest size.

[chasmo54]

You should be commended and congratulated for your conservation efforts over the years.
You might consider direct seeding as an alternative to purchasing non descript plants from Coldstream. Commercially sold acorns sell from 75 cents to 4 dollars a pound. About 100 acorns per pound at average $2.00 is 2 cents per seedling. Get some of that sawdust you were talking about for free and instead of planting seedlings in a fenced in area plant those acorns and with the money you save purchase some of those unique trees from Morse Nursery or Oikos Nursery and compare the difference, you will be suprised and it's fun.

[Pinefarm]

Oaks are the only thing we didn't plant. We have lots of them and lots of natural seeding. But others may be interested.

[fairfax1]

You got my attention.

Anybody who is plantin' trees "with an attitude'......or "other right answer plants"......sounds darn interesting.

I like the idea of 'precocious' oaks. I've been collecting acorns from the English Oaks along Wilson Rd on the MSU campus for years. It's been said that some of these oaks have hybridized. I don't know. That's stuff's at a pay-grade above me.


But, can you advise on .....not the retailers themselves......but about some of their offerings? Like ..do you have experience or know of folks who do ...with this particular hybrid oak vs. that particular hybrid oak? Will one be superior to another in gravelly glacial till soil of central Michigan vs. the riverbottom loams of C.Michigan.

My farm is perhaps 75 miles NNE of Kazoo & BC. What do you know of these hybrids growing in approximately that area.........or hell, anywhere in southern Mich.?

FX1

[Whit1]

I've known Mike, the owner of Coldstream Farms and his family for many years. My wife taught for many years in Freesoil and had the kids in school. Several years ago I purchased many trees from him and was always satisfied with the stock that he offered.

He's a good guy and reliable.

[Liver and Onions]

.............. Just a side note here that between me and my neighbor we have planted over 75 thousand hybrid and grafted gennetically gifted trees. Many at $22 each plus 75 thousand tubes, stakes and mulch in the past 5 years........

Holy smokes ! If you give tours, maybe a few of us could show up at your place this spring to see what you & your neighbor have done.

L & O

[BackStrap]

How can I get information on CSF? Do they have a website?

[Whit1]

How can I get information on CSF? Do they have a website?


http://www.coldstreamfarm.net/

[BackStrap]

Thanks, Whit1.

[chasmo54]

You got my attention.

Anybody who is plantin' trees "with an attitude'......or "other right answer plants"......sounds darn interesting.

I like the idea of 'precocious' oaks. I've been collecting acorns from the English Oaks along Wilson Rd on the MSU campus for years. It's been said that some of these oaks have hybridized. I don't know. That's stuff's at a pay-grade above me.


But, can you advise on .....not the retailers themselves......but about some of their offerings? Like ..do you have experience or know of folks who do ...with this particular hybrid oak vs. that particular hybrid oak? Will one be superior to another in gravelly glacial till soil of central Michigan vs. the riverbottom loams of C.Michigan.

My farm is perhaps 75 miles NNE of Kazoo & BC. What do you know of these hybrids growing in approximately that area.........or hell, anywhere in southern Mich.?

FX1
Well I'll tell you what I know. Hybrids are very vigorious especially the first 5 years growing 2 to 3 times faster than their pure species counter part. As with all plants and wheather or not they will be more or less suited to your property is determined in many ways. The first and most important being is the original seed source. If you are concidering making an investment in unique plants you will need to ask some questions in the right way insure your getting straight answers from the growers. I will intentionally not tell the grower where I'm from when I ask them where there seed source is from. This almost always results in reliable answers. If you let them know your from a cold northern location your are inviting a "crafted" answer of what you might want to hear. Second is you will need to know the parents involved in your hybrid. Some oaks specialize in wet sites while others are happier in dry sites. Determining what plants are best suited to your various sites are directly related to the parents. One example is Chestnut Oak a very dry site specialist, in fact it is often reffered to a Rock Oak and is in the white oak family and freely hybridizes with other white oaks. Any hybrid with Chestnut oak as one of the known parents would make a great dry site candidate like Sauls (Chestnut oak x White Oak), or Sargent Oak (Chestnut oak x English Oak). For wet sites any hybrid with Swamp White Oak would be a good choice like Schuettes Oak (Swamp white oak x Bur Oak). These hybrids can be found in Michigan and the resulting seedlings will be very well suited naturally for your property. Fasinating subject and once enlighted you will turn your fall hunting sport into a year round sport with every year bringing new hopes and expectations, very exciting stuff!

[Liver and Onions]

If anyone is interested in buying seed, F.W. Schumacker Seed Co. probably has it. 508-888-0659
For example, if you have done a 10 acre clear-cut this winter and want to start poplar in the area, planting by seed is the way to go.

L & O

[chasmo54]

Poplar is so ridden with diseases and insects it is concidered to be valueless almost a scurge or pest. There must be a better choice of plant that will do mostly the same job that poplar does without all the problems! Anyone know the answer to this?

[farmlegend]

You might consider direct seeding as an alternative to purchasing non descript plants from Coldstream. Commercially sold acorns sell from 75 cents to 4 dollars a pound. About 100 acorns per pound at average $2.00 is 2 cents per seedling.

Alright, so where do we purchase acorns?

[Liver and Onions]

Alright, so where do we purchase acorns?

www.foxsquirrel.com

L & O

[Whit1]

Alright, so where do we purchase acorns?



Not to mention that you'd have to plant the acorns at a VERY young age or you won't see the results of acorns falling..........:lol:

[chasmo54]

I noticed Vans Pines sells acorns.
www.vanspinesnursery.com (http://www.vanspinesnursery.com)

[buckslayerII]

Can you suggest a nursery in the northern LP where I can purchase hybrid oaks? Does CSF have them?

From a previous post, you suggest that we ask smart questions about the parents - basically, do we need to find out if the parents are from our area or a similar climate?

[chasmo54]

Can you suggest a nursery in the northern LP where I can purchase hybrid oaks? Does CSF have them?

From a previous post, you suggest that we ask smart questions about the parents - basically, do we need to find out if the parents are from our area or a similar climate?
There are two that I'm aware of www.morsenursery.com (http://www.morsenursery.com) and www.oikostreecrops.com (http://www.oikostreecrops.com). Morse has a unique growing system, collects seed locally and specializes in wildlife habitat. Oiko's has unique oaks from locally collected trees and what appears to be from arboretums or breeders from around the country. The seed from these 'other than local' trees would have to be some what "trial" rated but worth a try. Personally I would stick with the locally collected offerings.
As far as the parents are concerned local trees are a "premium" first choice, no question about it. At the very least parents should be from the same type of climate or Zone to insure cold hardyness. I have purchased seedlings with zone ratings from 3-7 from acorns collected in southern Illinois that died back every year without knowing why. It really is worth any investigative efforts nessasary to confirm the seed or parent tree location. The best most reliable way is ask questions before you give any details from where your calling or where your going to plant.

[buckslayerII]

Thank-you. In a previous post, you mentioned a few hybrids and where they'll do well. Would you suggest purchasing several types to increase chances of one variety "taking" or do some homework and just purchase one or two and plant based on soil type?

[chasmo54]

BSII
Mono-culture is out diversity is in. Go with several different kinds of hybrid oaks. You will only need to worry about where your planting, is it wet or dry. A swamp oak will do well in an upland soil but a upland oak will not do well in a wet site they don't all carry the same gene that allow the roots to go without oxygen. Mixing up the oaks will give you literally everything from small acorns to large acorns early drop to late drop and bumper crops not all occuring the same years.

[buckslayerII]

Can you suggest a resource (or do you know) for help in planting oaks. How many trees in an area? Do they prefer/need a lot of light? Etc, etc?

[chasmo54]

If you were going to invest in hybrid oaks, I would give them the best locations on your land, meaning full sun. I would not plant more than 100 per acre and if your unable to plant them yourself I would think some of the people that put in food plots would do the work or any local landscaper. Maybe offer hunting privileges in trade for the work.

[buckslayerII]

100 per acre?!?!?!?!? Do these oaks get planted as "stands" or interspersed with other trees?

Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong, but I was planning more like 50-60 on the 40 acre parcel I have in mind. Granted, about half is tillable field.

[chasmo54]

100 per acre?!?!?!?!? Do these oaks get planted as "stands" or interspersed with other trees?

Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong, but I was planning more like 50-60 on the 40 acre parcel I have in mind. Granted, about half is tillable field.
Sorry about that bsII. I gave you the maximum density per acre for the maximun acorn yeilds. Naturally you could plant any amount in any configuration to suit your goals. Planting within other trees to fill in or in small groupings or stands while keeping your open ground is what most people will want to do. Your "Right thinking"