How did you aquire your land? [Archive] - The Michigan Sportsman Forums

Munsterlndr

01-30-2006, 08:10 PM

Several problems with aquiring land without a sustantial amount of capital. First, it is not as easy to get financing for vacant land as it is for an improved property. Interest rates may be higher and the term of the loan may be shorter than if the property had a house on it. Not saying it can't be done but it is more difficult. If you have good credit and a decent income you may be able to get some commercial financing that has attractive terms.

Secondly, vacant land usually does not produce much cash flow (income) to offset the debt service and the taxes. Unless you have a lot of extra cash available on a monthly basis, this can make things tough. Sometimes a farmer might lease some of the land for crops and there may be some potential for timber income but while these might offset some of the taxes and help some, they probably won't pay for the property by any means.

One of the methods that I used is to buy and fix up houses and keep them as rental properties. The first one is the hardest, after that it gets easier. After you improve them and they appreciate a little you can use the equity you build in them as the downstroke on the next one. The monthly rental income pays the debt service on the loan and covers most of the taxes. Over some time you can build a pretty substantial equity position and then might be in a position to pay cash for some vacant property. If you liquidate some of your rentals you can move the proceeds into vacant land with a tax deferred exchange.

Another thing you can do is find an acreage parcel that has a home on it, use the home as a rental and use the acreage yourself. The rental income may cover a substantial portion of your debt service. Or find the above and split off the acreage and sell the house on a few acres. In the right situation, if you hold the property for a few years as a rental, and then sell the house, you may end up getting the acreage almost for free.

Another option is to find a large parcel that can be divided, buy it and sell of some splits. This can be tricky, though, and is not for the novice.

If you have some retirement funds it also might be possible to move a portion of them into real estate. If the property you purchase has development or investment potential you can justify this and be pretty safe doing so. It depends on what kind of vehicle your retirement funds are in.

Lots of different ways to go about it but your right land is not getting much cheaper.

Marrying into it or inheriting it can be good ways, too. :lol:

farmlegend

01-30-2006, 08:30 PM

After my divorce in the '80's, I took in a roommate to defray expenses of my little ranch home in south Livonia. Soon, I was getting ahead a little, and applied 100% of my rental income to paying down the principal on the place. A few more paydowns, using some annual bonus comp, a few more years, and I had the sucker paid for in full. When I bought my farm in Hillsdale County in November of '95, I borrowed against my paid-for home to the hilt, and, combined with some other savings, was able to offer the seller a cash deal, close quickly, and therefore get a substantial discount from his asking price.

I suggest living a frugal lifestyle and saving your money. No magic to that. Plain old discipline and self-denial. It pays.

fairfax1

01-30-2006, 08:53 PM

First, every hunter out there dreams of having and improving his own huntin' spot..so the topic resonates with alot of the fellows out there.

And, for those who already have their land -it's a topic that brings back memories. I'd bet every guy out there who has his own land can bore every one of us to death on how it came to be...in excruciating detail. It's locked in their heads as if put in with a branding iron.

But, for you........my advice is make the acquisition of your hunting land a hobby. I mean make the whole activity of lookin' for the ground; looking for the seller; figuring ways to convince 'em to sell to you; figuring how to negotiate; knowing about taxes, depreciation, crop rental, etc. etc. Make it a hobby like some guys make fishing a hobby. Trust me, it is fascinating.

It ain't just buying land. It's learning the whole process that leads up to buying and owning land.

To answer your question on how it can come to be I can share my experience: I looked hard ..really hard for 11 years. I identified the DMU's that I would want to own in ...then the townships within those DMU's ...and then narrowed it to which sections. I got a plat book,found out who owned which parcels. I got their addresses from the County Tax Assessor and then I wrote the targeted land owners a letter explaining who I was and why I was writing them. Then I called the ones I could find phone number for and asked if they got my letter. If they weren't interested in selling ....and virtually every single one wasn't....I sent them a note thanking them for chatting with me and to keep me in mind if things change. Then I sent them a card every year reminding them I was still a bridesmaid looking for a date. Then I drove to each owner's house and introduced myself face-to-face so they knew who the hell was dropping them letters and cards.

It took a lot of work and it took a long time. And I flubbed and lost opportunities at good ground because I was all elbows and awkwardness. But finally it came together. One man who I had contacted 6 years earlier called and said he was "interested in selling". It came together easily then....mainly, because I had learned just enough. And he had learned just enough about me to feel comfortable in selling his prized land to me.

The added benefit that I really hadn't anticipated was all those letters and cards and visits created for me a whole network of folks that today are my valued neighbors and friends. We can sit and have coffe today and they'll bring up the phone-call they got from me way-back-when....and we'll all laugh and smile. It's a good thing.

target-panic

01-30-2006, 09:21 PM

Fairfax...................Great story!!!!

fairfax1

01-30-2006, 09:26 PM

It's slightly off-topic...but not too far. And it's a bit soap-boxy...so please forgive.

It's guys like you, who at 27, dream about land and take the steps (like your post here) to kick-start that dream-- who someday end up with land.

Clearly you know it is expensive now. And with your 'bite the bullet' comment you hint that you are aware that sacrifices are going to be needed ...that other dreams may need to be deferred.

But, when you get that ground Brian, you will eventually hear comments from other hunters, or on internet forums, or old friends ..... that you are now one of the 'haves' (vs. the 'have nots')......that you can afford to be picky on deer...or you look down on public land hunters, or you are an 'elitist' (my favorite). But, so be it. It's always been that way. Unless it comes from a close friend ... it's easy to ignore and chuckle with your wife about it.

In my experience...when I was in business and with now owning good hunting ground....the guys who bought their land, or were successful in their businesses......were the guys who realized that a real price had to be paid, understood that sacrifices were needed to make those payments, and then.....made a choice.

THAT is the real American way. Choice. A choice of buying a boat...or a mutual fund. A choice of a vacation...or volunteering for overtime. A choice of buying used...or buying new.
It sounds un-fun but that is how capital is accumulated.

Good luck, it's good trip.

Stepping off the box now.....

plugger

01-30-2006, 09:47 PM

I did the second job thing for quite a while.

bigrackmack

01-30-2006, 09:54 PM

I just made my first payment on 10 acres I purchased...Started the deal in Aug, And I'am glad it is over. They had problems with the easment to it..I went to the closing and asked them to so me where the easement was and if they could show me on the platt map. They could not show me exactly where it was, that is one thing I wanted to make sure it had (alot for resale value) Took them about 3 months to get it straightened out, But it is a done deal now! Atleast I could hunt on it during the deal...A big part of me buying my own land was that I had plenty of places to bow hunt but come gun season was always tring to find somewere to go..(not anymore) I got a platt map and sent letters to all the proprty owneres around here that I knew there was no one hunting, Asked them if they were interested in leasing there land for hunting, Or even selling, Not but a couple of days later the phone rings and this old timer tells me he interested in selling it , So we worked out a price...My older brother is a lawyer which was very helpful in all this believe me.....Good luck, It may be a little work but it will be worth it..Mack

sandbur3

01-30-2006, 09:57 PM

Make sure you understand the property tax structure. For me, I very much enjoy living on one parcel of my hunting land. It is easy to get out for an hour or two for improvements or food plots and still be near your children. They enjoy seeing the wildlife from the house, too. Occasionally during hunting season, I stay with the kids and my wife goes hunting for the evening. The girls even go along sometimes.

Tax wise- our land is zoned agriculture and I also get homestead credit. In Minnesota that makes a big difference. I have rental income from the open ground and some expense from the parts of it I manage. We bought an old run down farm with a burned out farmhouse. Lived in a cold trailer until we could do better.

Ferg

01-31-2006, 08:50 AM

I did a lot like fairfax - looked and looked - but I didn't have 'lots of cash' so what I 'looked for' was -

Someone that needed to suppliment their income some - I found a nice man - with 20 acres - he was retired military - and was looking for some way to suppliment his income -

So I offered him what cash I had at the time, 3k, and asked if he would 'hold the note' for me for 10 years - I offered an interest rate above what he could get on simular investment on the market - and he jumped at the chance.

So I didn't have to work any deals with the bank - only the owner - we have been doing this about 5 years now -

Nice part about doing a land contact is that it's win win for the owner -
He gets a guarnteed income for a set number of years - and if you mess up and don't make your payment he gets to keep the land AND all your payments that you made - He can't loose -

Look for DNR tax sales too - DNR sells land all the time - as do counties for taxes - they list them - call the county clerks for info on tax sales -

ferg....

farmlegend

01-31-2006, 08:56 AM

Excellent posts, fairfax. Making the land search a "hobby" is not only educational, it keeps your "eye on the prize" as you sacrifice and save.

My search went on for about four years. I wrote letters and made phone calls to rural banks, FSA offices, title companies, and lots of other entities I've long forgotten. Regularly corresponded with realtors in several counties. Missed out on a couple tremendous deals early in the process because I didn't have the coin at the time to get it done. Drove many thousands of miles on the weekends, eyeballing properties out in the hinterlands, and walked less than 10% of 'em (vast majority turned out to be "drive by's"). Tromped across parcels in Branch, Hillsdale, Lenawee, Calhoun, Jackson, Washtenaw, Ingham, Livingston, Tuscola, and Lapeer Counties. Went into negotiation in '93 on one parcel in Ingham County, never got consummated, non-motivated seller who increased the asking price with each unsuccessful offer. Had another deal collapse the following year on a unique hunting piece in Jxn County, as a deeply flawed legal description recorded on the deed was discovered in the process.

By the time the "deal" had finally showed up, I'd invested a ton of time and shoe leather. Caught a break when one of the realtors I'd regularly corresponded with (Faust in Adrian) got a listing in Hillsdale County; I was the first phone call the listing agent made. Took the next day off work, arrived at the property at dawn, walked the perimeter, then the interior, and saw enough to know I wanted it(had I not invested so much time on my land search up to that point, I wouldn't have acquired the knowledge base to even make that determination). Made my offer ASAP, and the motivated seller (another lucky break) accepted it. The deal itself was a snap and relatively uneventful, but, in reaching it, I'd invested a tremendous number of hours and energy investigating hundreds of properties over a period of years.

Along the lines of ff's comments - throughout the long land-search process, I never imagined myself as one of the "haves". Never spent a nickel on boats/sports cars/vacation homes, as some of my contemporaries did. I drive to/from the office each day in a pickup truck with 92,000 miles on it. Back before I bought my hunting land, never, in my wildest dreams, did I imagine being tagged with the "elitist" label. In retrospect, hilarious.

Amongst the things I discovered, was this - there is no feeling of earthly wealth quite so satisfying as walking up to the top of the hill, looking all about you, and reminding yourself, "wow, this is my land".

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/551/medium/420CentPkSoys1104.JPG

Ferg

01-31-2006, 09:11 AM

Amongst the things I discovered, was this - there is no feeling of earthly wealth quite so satisfying as walking up to the top of the hill, looking all about you, and reminding yourself, "wow, this is my land.

Wow, isn't that the truth!! I too, never knew just how 'cool' of a feeling that is - I didn't realize my 'dream' to own land until I was 45 - so it was a long time coming - but it was/is everything I thought it would be.

ferg....

LReed

01-31-2006, 09:39 AM

A couple of other things that I did when I purchased my land was to put some in the CRP program. Check with your farm service agency for your area to see if thats an option. It's not a ton of money but at least pays the taxes. The other thing is if you have a considerable amount of timber you can have some logged off. I hired a forrester to come in and make his recommendations on what to do. Now that can actually make some payments for you. And 10 to 12 years later you can do it again.

I guess the moral of the story is to look at the property and think of ways it can help offset some of the cost.

Any fields that you can rent to a farmer would help too.

Zilla

01-31-2006, 11:23 AM

To all that replied:
Great information, I learned something today. Plus, you just motivated me even more to buy the property I am looking at.:D
Zilla

schopie4

01-31-2006, 11:37 AM

I personally hunt on land that my family has owned since 1955. While I personally didn't do anything to acuire the land (besides being born) I know that my grandfather and his buddies did pretty much what everyone here has been talking about.
My grandpa bought it with 2 of his uncles (they were all the same age, even though they were his uncles, they were more like brothers). They all worked at the family lumber yard in frasier and saved up as much money as they could. They searched for a few years and my grandpa says that they heard about 640 acres for sale in ogemaw county, and they sent one of his uncles up to walk the property, he called them back the next day and they bought it right then with only one of them ever even seeing it. Over the years more of the surrounding land was acquired and at one point they had over 1200 acres of land. Now some has been sold and the number is down closer to 840 acres. It amazes me so much that they bought the land without ever even seeing it. I can't imagine that happening today.

Gilbey

01-31-2006, 12:51 PM

I'm 32, bought my 20 acres back when I was 29. I want the 18 next to me, but all in due time.

I would just offer two pieces of advice. First of all, start to develop a banking relationship with your bank or multiple banks. This gives them and you a comfort feel when you get to that point. Also, banks that tend to do creative financing are ones in your position that would most likely do something, or being willing to speculate that if there is a problem, then the land can be sold.

The other option I would see is a land contract. Depending on the circumstances with the seller, creative financing can be quite doable with little money down. If the property is of high value and is very desirable, typically your terms and mney down will be more significant, and vice versa.

Good luck!

mike hartges

01-31-2006, 01:03 PM

When I decided to buy land, I thought about what I wanted in a piece of land. I wanted something around 40 acres in size(actually wanted more but couldn't afford it). Next I wanted a property that was about half wooded and half tillable. Finally, I wanted a property that had a creek on it. I told my realtor to take his time and I would be patient until he found a piece of land that would suit my needs. It took him 1 year to find the property and it turned out to be a 60 acre parcel instead of 40 acres. I wanted land within a 2 hour drive from my home in the metro Detroit area. At that time, land in Jackson county was going for about $1500/acre and land in Hillsdale county was going for less than $1000/acre.Both of these counties had reputations for growing some big bucks. I realized I could get more for my money in Hillsdale county so that's where I looked. This was back in 1993. Since I worked Saturdays for 20 years, I had saved enough for a down payment on a land contract. After a few years, I refinanced my house and paid off the land contract. After that, the interest I was paying was tax deductible since it was being paid on a home mortgage. I leased out some of the property to a farmer and now some of the land is in the Conservation Reserve Program(CRP). On a final note, once you purchase some property you'll find lots of other related items to spend money on too. There are implements for food plots, mowing, atv's etc. My advice to anybody that wants to own land is to start saving for a down payment. Take baby steps. Have a land fund where you put some money each month no matter how little you can afford. When you get a tax refund, put it in the land fund. If you get a pay raise or a bonus at work, put it in the land fund. I realize that's an oversimplification of how to acquire money to buy land but it's a start. Not only is it great having your own place to hunt, but the land appreciates in value over the years so it can be a great investment over time.

NorthJeff

01-31-2006, 01:12 PM

Buying smart, building good credit....and selling smarter! In 1997, we bought our first house and we didn't have enough for the 5% downpayment, so we borrowed the $2500 from our parents and bought the house for $50,000. Now, and maybe then, there are programs that will get first time home buyers into homes with no money down, including closing costs so the borrowing with parents thing isn't a real issue. In 3 months I had a real estate agent list the house, we painted the interior, threw some 25 year old carpet away, re-did some hardwood floors for $300(ourselves...first time/no experience needed) to replace the carpet, replaced the hot water heater, and burned a lot of scented candles. We had that house sold in 6 months for $60,000, and moved into a new house, with out own downpayment, for $57,000. We could then afford to replace the carpet with new, cheaper carpet that still looked nice, painted the interior, spruced up the exterior by trimming bushes, planting a few flowers, and sold 3 acres from the total 5 acres with the house for $20,000 to be used as a building lot. We put the house up for sale, and sold the house with the 2 acres for $60,000. In the meantime, we were able to buy 37.5 acres in the thumb for $1125 an acre, and sold it less than 2 years later for $1500 an acre. All of the money we made, we put back into our next purchase. We then moved to the U.P. and were able to put down more than 1/2 of the purchase price to purchase a small home and 10 acres for $57,000. Because we had so much equity in the house, when a 20 acre parcel came for sale for $14,000 that I knew I could split and make money on, we bought it on a 6-month note with no money down. Within 5 months we had both 10's sold for $11,000 and $12,000, and when we were able to work out an agreement for the 120 acres behind our house, we were able to buy it with very little debt. That 120 acres has been the foundation for us to buy and sell other real-estate including a small commercial building for my business that we bought and sold for a slight gain, and a waterfront cabin that we bought, enjoyed for a year, and sold for a decent profit after a lot of clean-up and paint. The equity in the 120 acres has almost doubled since the purchase of that piece in 99, and we owe nothing on it. The 120 acres continues to be our base for the purchase of other property, including an old cabin we will renovate to be our new home and another piece we purchased to swap with the feds that will add acreage to our current property.

You have to buy smart...and sell smart, but bottom line, you have to sell, to realize your equity. Do that enough times, keep your credit golden, and ANYONE can build equity over a few years time. The worst house in the neighborhood is always brought up by the average...and the best is always brought down by the average. It can all start with buying houses, living in them, making them look much more inviting..and selling the house. The faster you sell, the more your profit means something and don't look it as you spent $50,000 and sold for $60,000 before expenses...look at it as using someone elses $50,000 you make a few interest payments, and turn it into a few thousand or more. Basically, you invested -0- of your own dollars, made a few payments at the lowest possible payment amount...and turned it into a few thousand dollars or more!

It can be done. Use the advice of an experienced real-estate appraiser in your area to keep you buying smart, buy houses that aren't that pretty...but are structurally sound, and that will help you buy on the low side of the potential value. Paint, yard work, scented candles, fresh decorating, and baking cookies when the house is shown...all help. A real estate agent helps considerably and will expose your house to the most potential buyers. The more buyers, the more you can expect to get for your house, the less buyers, the less you can expect to get.

It can be done, just have to keep your nose clean, and buy and sell smart. Forgot to mention...don't be afraid to move to an area with cheaper housing. We have had to change jobs at times, but if we had stayed in Waterford where the cheapest junky house was $100,000....we could have never made it happen unless we made a whole lot more money than we did. It CAN BE done!

One of the biggest mistakes I see new home buyers making in their young years, is buying their "dream-house". The bank says they can, the real estate agents say they can, and they buy it. They buy high, have litte to no equity, and their equity grows very slow, except for the best of markets. They don't plan to sell, and have too much debt tied up in their home. They have a great 2000 sq.ft. home, but have very little financial "wiggle room". My wife and I are living in our 3rd home, have 3 kids, with 1120 Sq. Ft. and no basement...but we have a lot of acreage!:) Our 4th house will be more the right size...around 2000 sq.ft. and no basement-small for some, but will seem like a mansion to us. I can see if we had not made the right choices along the way, we'd be living in a 2000 sq.ft. newer home in a subdivision with litte equity and no land, but you do have a choice...and I feel we've made mostly the right ones, while still being conservative in our approach and starting with zero money.

BarryPatch

01-31-2006, 01:36 PM

Start early and buy as soon a possible. It isn't getting any cheaper. I bought an apartment building at 23. Sold it 3 years later and bought two more. Sold one and bought another and built a new house. Rental income now pays for 53 acres near South Haven that I paid for partially with a tax deductible home equity loan taken out on my house. I bought it two years ago for less than half what an empty 25' x 125' lot would cost me in my neighborhood in Chicago. A couple months ago another 1/3 of my 1/4 section was sold for $70k more than I paid and it has no improvements save old oil wells, tanks and accompanying pollution.

BarryPatch

01-31-2006, 01:51 PM

When I decided to buy land, I thought about what I wanted in a piece of land. I wanted something around 40 acres in size(actually wanted more but couldn't afford it). Next I wanted a property that was about half wooded and half tillable. Finally, I wanted a property that had a creek on it. I told my realtor to take his time and I would be patient until he found a piece of land that would suit my needs. It took him 1 year to find the property and it turned out to be a 60 acre parcel instead of 40 acres. I wanted land within a 2 hour drive from my home in the metro Detroit area. At that time, land in Jackson county was going for about $1500/acre and land in Hillsdale county was going for less than $1000/acre.Both of these counties had reputations for growing some big bucks. I realized I could get more for my money in Hillsdale county so that's where I looked. This was back in 1993. Since I worked Saturdays for 20 years, I had saved enough for a down payment on a land contract. After a few years, I refinanced my house and paid off the land contract. After that, the interest I was paying was tax deductible since it was being paid on a home mortgage. I leased out some of the property to a farmer and now some of the land is in the Conservation Reserve Program(CRP). On a final note, once you purchase some property you'll find lots of other related items to spend money on too. There are implements for food plots, mowing, atv's etc. .

That's a great post. My property search sounds about the same a yours. Same goals and took over a year to find it. 40+ mixed acres with some type of water within 2 1/2 hours of Chicago, close to the lake with good neighbors (mostly). I spent 40K on a new tractor, implements and a pole barn since I bought the place. You'll find a lot of ways to spend money.

NorthJeff

01-31-2006, 02:30 PM

Hey Mike..your PM is full again :)

mich buckmaster

01-31-2006, 02:42 PM

This is a great thread!! I have been looking for land, but around my house land is going for 3500-7000 an acre. Some land is going for over 10,000 an acre. I just CANT afford that kind of payment. I am envious of many of you guys taking that innitiative, but with two little ones, on a teaching salary is just tough.

I hope someday I get to walk on MY piece of heaven!!!

GRUNDY

01-31-2006, 02:45 PM

Sounds like the most consistent way to build equity/earn more money is to start and stay with realstate. That's actually the reason I bought the grungy house we have now, although it is not as structurally sound as the home inspector initially lead me to believe. It will be a money maker for me. Keep the stories coming, I'm having fun dreaming!

Brian

farmlegend

01-31-2006, 03:22 PM

Sounds like the most consistent way to build equity/earn more money is to start and stay with realstate.

I think that is less likely to be true over the next several years than it used to be, especially here in Michigan. Where I live, despite what you hear trumpeted by the realtor boards, prices of single-family homes have dropped markedly over the last two years. Right now, the supply/demand imbalace in homes a half-million dollars and up is so profound that we truly don't have a functioning market in that segment; this disease is rapidly spreading downward into lower price ranges. And things are probably not going to get a lot better in Michigan for a number of years.

Safest bet is to work hard, save religiously, and stay at it.

halfczech

01-31-2006, 03:47 PM

About 15 years ago 40acres I was hunting on became available. the people wanted 1000. an acre. It was a beautifull piece of property with a stream running through it. I thought 1000 an acre was way to much for hunting property. So the next door neighbor bought it to add it to his hunting property. The neighbors name is ed spinolza. I could have had 40 right next to ed , but oh no a 1000 was too much. 3 years ago i bought 35 acres for 2000 an acre. its a great piece of property and much closer to my cabin but boy would i like eds deer living next door. anyway propery keeps going up and youve got to get your self in postion to pull the trigger and then pull it. But that being said never give up your dream. I wanted property before i was 35 ,didnt happen. then 40 didnt happen. I began to wonder if ever i was going to be able to do it. Then the kids grew up the wife went to work and my investments did well and 3yrs ago bought my piece of land. Theres different ways to do it just dont give up!

Foodplot

01-31-2006, 03:48 PM

Farm legend's description makes me want to snuggle up to that tree trunk in the picture with a cup of coffee and daydream. I too wanted land (Texas) after I came back home, found 59 acres, hunted and played with it. The guy next door had a friend that pestered me every year to sell it to him. I figured at 28 years of age he didn't have the money so I quoted him a higher than normal price, he broke out his check book and wrote me a check for the full amount. There is lesson number one, don't assume and if you spout off a price you best be prepared to part with it.I have seen land around me sell for what I term ridiculous prices, but rule two is there are folks out their with money and they are not afraid to use it if they want what you are selling. So buying and re-sellling is a good way to build equity, just don't be in a hurry. I was landless for awhile and ran acoss a advertisment stuck to a cork bulletin board at a oil/lube change shop one sat. morning. The price quoted almost cause my death from strangling on my coffee. Ask the owner how long the note had been there, since that morning, yank, call, bought, and still own, just finished building my home on the place. So look at papers, real estate agents, listing, talk to farmers, ranchers, county commissioners. etc. don't limit yourself. I utilized my bank, but also checked out farm mort. places, farm credit unions, Veterans land bank, and a federal farming loan for young farmers/ranchers who are trying to get started. You can always buy small and plant foodplots etc. and resell. I would much rather have land to work than a motorcycle,boat, fancy car etc. Once you buy then you will need a tractor, shredder, disc, grain drill, tools, a welder, fencing, brush clearing etc. etc. I bought all used farm equipment, got my old John Deere Grain Drill, 13 row planter, ready to go for 300.oo$ etc. It's a blast and I never tire from going home, taking a walk through the woods, checking foodplots, cameras etc. I wish you all the best.

KalamazooKid

01-31-2006, 03:57 PM

I've owned and hunted on the 10 that I live on for 8 years ... but with a wife and now a 12 yr old that love to bow hunt, I found myself in need of making some decisions. It really boiled down to priorities and making sure the family was on board.:grouphug:

After losing another piece of property (hunting rights), I felt strongly that to insure long term access for my whole family, it meant that THE TIME WAS NOW for getting serious about making some sacrifices and finding some land. I began the search for 30+ acres and after looking at hundreds of props and expanding my range, I was truly blessed to come across 48 acres of deer hunting paradise in the Lawrence area (Van Buren Co) that I just closed on in early Nov.

I remember the first hunt in late Oct (they said I could hunt just prior to closing) when this picture was taken ..... I dropped to my knees with tears in my eyes (in this spot) and thanked the Lord for the ability to purchase and use this land. No one will ever tell me I can't hunt here!

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/medium/DSCN0634.JPG

NorthJeff

01-31-2006, 04:02 PM

One thing I notice up here as a real estate appraiser is that although the higher end of the market can turn very soft to the point that nothing is selling, the lowest priced homes always seem to be moving..if attractive. The investment isn't in the higher prices, but instead in the fairly ugly, but sound, lower prices. Every home has a market value. The trick is not in finding a home that will appreciate in value, but to find a home that you can change the market value of. For example, find that ugly, poorly maintained home that is in the lower end of the neighborhood. Buy a home that can be "dolled-up", cleaned-up, and spruced-up, with not much more than paint, chemicals, trimmers, shovels, scented candles to bring closer to it's potential market value. Kind of like taking that cheap, fat, lazy, slow, neglected, 2 year old beagle and making him a "star" with a little extra love and attention. Money can be made in the worst of markets, especially when you are working with housing that is around the monthly price of the local rental markets. Buy ugly and cheap...sell cute and reasonable.

Another avenue is to get hooked up with a realtor than doesn't have a clue. Sometimes they are way too high, sometimes way too low....but if you find the right realtor you can sometimes find some good buys. I missed a doozy a few years back. I would occasionally pass this sign that read, "two 20 acre parcels, $40,000". Stupid me, I took it as $40,000 each..which was about right. Well, a couple months later I saw an add in the paper that read, "$40,000 for two 20 acre parcels" and immediately I got the sick feeling that I read the add wrong. I just about dove for the phone....and dialed the number. "too late" were the words, and the person that bought it had it sold for $65,000 before they closed on the property. When the buyer closed, he took his check, and never even took ownership of the property...for more than a few seconds anyways. The 2nd buyer had it sold for $80,000 in 3 months...and I've been kicking myself ever since. That was an example of a parcel that wasn't increasing in value...but a parcel that was "for sale by owner" by someone that had not concept of current values. Was the first buyer "dumb" for not going for the $80,000. Absolutely not. They knew it was easily worth the $80,000, and new that making $25,000 without investing anything other than a little time, was "priceless".

That's another tip. If you are buying real estate to sell quickly...get as many days to close as possible. For example, "90 days". Then, immediately re-list the property(this is legal!!) if you think you got a great buy, and if you bought smart and have 90 days, it is entirely possible to sell that property..before you even own it. Use 180 day notes from flexible lending sources like local banks, and if you know what you are doing many times you don't ever have to use your own money. Also, if a real estate agent comes to you and says, "I have the perfect buyer, give me a 6 month listing". Tell them you'll do a 1 party listing for that "perfect buyer" in which you list with that realtor, for only that "magical buyer". I have done this before, and to my surprise, the realtor showed up with a signed purchase agreement, that afternoon...she proved me wrong because I didn't believe her, but we both won in the end and I don't mind paying a commision one bit.

Munsterlndr

01-31-2006, 04:06 PM

I think that is less likely to be true over the next several years than it used to be, especially here in Michigan. Where I live, despite what you hear trumpeted by the realtor boards, prices of single-family homes have dropped markedly over the last two years. Right now, the supply/demand imbalace in homes a half-million dollars and up is so profound that we truly don't have a functioning market in that segment; this disease is rapidly spreading downward into lower price ranges. And things are probably not going to get a lot better in Michigan for a number of years.

Safest bet is to work hard, save religiously, and stay at it.

I'd have to disagree with you you on this point. Slightly depressed prices make it a great time to get into investment properties. It is a buyers market. If you do your homework and buy smart, over the long term real estate is almost always a solid investment.

As far as savings, how has your portfolio performed in the last 3 or 4 years? A lot of people are seeing their investments sitting there earning almost nothing or actually losing money. What sort of rate of return would you calculate that NJ earned on his initial investments in real estate?

Real Estate, as an investment offers some very attractive opportunities to the younger investor. It allows them to build sweat equity by improving the property through thier own physical labor. This can be accomplished in your spare time which is a lot easier in a family situation than taking a second job. Fixing up a house and selling it will also probably provide a much greater return than getting an extra job at 7-11.

The other nice thing about rental real estate as an investment is that you are using other peoples money ( the banks and your tenants) to build equity in a property that is also appreciating at the same time.

Do you hear horror stories about rentals and real estate? Sure but there are also a lot of success stories. You have to become educated about it and approach it as a business not just as a hobby. Get a real estate license. All it takes is a 40 hour class and a few hundred bucks in fee's. You can save tens of thousands in commissions this way and also get access to a lot of inside information about potentially good deals.

I would not hesitate to recommend investing in real estate as a good way to substantially increase your net worth. It is at least worth taking a look at.

BarryPatch

01-31-2006, 04:29 PM

I'm a landlord and take it from me TENNANTS SUCK!!!!. I've dealt with them because the real estate market in Chicago was a buy from 1996 until about 2001. Since then it's been a hold market. Prices are leveling off and people bid up prices beyond what rental incomes can support on the expectation that this price inflation will last forever. (eg $400+K for a 2-flat that rents for 2 x 1200 per month) Price growth is in higher end building not necessarily in appreciation of existing stock other than in a few choice fringe neighborhoods (where I happen to own). Even these neighborhoods haven't made sence in the past couple years because you have to buy before the market develops to make any real money.

farmlegend

01-31-2006, 04:48 PM

I'd have to disagree with you you on this point. Slightly depressed prices make it a great time to get into investment properties. It is a buyers market. If you do your homework and buy smart, over the long term real estate is almost always a solid investment.

I don't fundamentally disagree, however, you'd better be talking about a very long time horizon, longer than we've seen in previous Michigan slumps. I believe we're on our way to becoming the New Appalachia.

Should point out that I've bought and sold a fair number of properties over the last 25 years. Buyers' market or not, I'm not interested in Michigan properties right now. If you think we've currently got a "buyers' market", wait another couple years. I suspect we're a long way from the bottom. This ain't 1974; in Michigan, it really is different this time.

I agree BP, tenants do suck. I can think of a hundred ways I'd rather make a living.

farmlegend

01-31-2006, 04:55 PM

As far as savings, how has your portfolio performed in the last 3 or 4 years?

Honestly, absolutely boffo. 2005 was terrific. I'm up, WAY up over the March 2000 market peak. At that time, I was overweight in value stocks, small caps, developing markets (Asia/India/Latin America), and energy, most of which underperformed in the late 90's (when I underperformed, as I missed the great Nasdaq bonanza), and have kickedass over the last few years.

Tecumseh

01-31-2006, 05:07 PM

What a great thread. I am leaving work so I don't have time to post fully but....
you will never find a good time to buy and a good time to sell simultaneously. Most areas in Michigan are now or are quickly turning into a good time to buy if you feel a turnaround is somewhere in the future. this is mainly occurring in and around the cities and suburban areas but the Realtors in the rural areas or up north are seeing it as well with the longer then normal sell times and much fewer downstate buyers. The next year may turn out to be the best time to buy real estate in Michigan then most of us can remember.
This past summer I tried my hardest to acquire a 60 acre farm set up with everything I wanted, including a trout stream but the deal fell apart for several reasons BUt.....if I had about 30% to put down I could have bipassed enough of the sellers financial problems and still gotten the farm.
My solution is a long[er] term one in that I decided become very aggressive buying and renting or buying and selling quality homes in areas that should recover quickly IF & WHEN such a recovery begins. I just got done with a total renovation this past week and it will be difficult to keep up with the plan but I feel that is what it will take for me to get the property that I want.
With vacant land or larger farms you really should have 20+% to put down or you will get hosed with interest rates, closing costs, etc. There is so much great information already posted in this thread so I won't repeat it but Farmlegend said it perfectly in that it takes a lot of dedication and sacrifice to get what you want and you can't always get it right away.
I hope you are able to come up with a plan that will work for you and that all of us find the ways to get what we really want out of life.

Ferg

01-31-2006, 05:14 PM

I agree BP, tenants do suck. I can think of a hundred ways I'd rather make a living.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Interesting comments about 'tenants' - It's nice to know that there is mutual love in the rental business - being a renter for many many years in just about every state in these here United States - I can unconditionally report - that all 'tenants', 100% agree - that 'all landlords suck' :lol: :lol: :lol:

We ALWAYS left a rental worth much more than when we moved in - and it usually was at our own expense to improve some over priced dump that the landlord wouldn't sink a penny of his own money in to make better - but we did, cuz we had to live there - anyway -

This is WAY OFF TOPIC - sorry -

I just thought it was cool that there is such mutual love between landlords and tenants....

ferg....

NorthJeff

01-31-2006, 05:21 PM

I had a well-respected landlord/businessman that gave me what I still think is very good advice. He said don't buy 1 rental, don't buy 3, get at least 5-6 or more so that if you had 1 or 2 bad tenants, you would come closer to still hitting the averages. Meaning, if you have 2 rentals, and 2 bad tenants, you might be in trouble. On the otherhand, the more rentals you have, the more you can expect to hit the "averages" for the area in terms of good and bad tenants. Made some sense...and I good or bad, I never bought rentals.

Munsterlndr

01-31-2006, 07:04 PM

I'd agree with a couple of points made here. The larger number of rentals the less peaks and valleys there are but on the other hand then it becomes a full time business managing them instead of a lucrative side line.

As far as whether tenants or landlords suck I would say that in both cases some do and some don't. I've been both.

A lot depends on the demographic of your tenant base. After doing this for many years I have found the formula that works best for me. We buy upscale rental properties that we tend to rent to professional couples who are either childless or have one child. We buy only in a tightly defined geographic area, close to a major hospital and in an area that has superior schools. Our typical tenant is paying $1,200 to $1,500 a month and has a couple of thousand tied up in a security deposit. The properties I buy are all less than 10 years old and in excellant condition. I hold a property for between 3 -5 years, depending on market conditions. By doing this I manage to avoid making any capital improvements to the properties, no new roofs, furnaces, windows, etc. These can drain your profit margin. If the tenant has a problem with something it is fixed by a professional within 24 hours. They know if they call me it will be taken care of immediately. I never have a problem collecting rents and most of my tenants will rent for the entire time that I own the property. Treat your tenants well and they will usually treat you well, back.

The properties I buy are usually in the $150k to $200k range and I expect them to appreciate by anywhere from 15-30% in the time frame that I own them. Financing is by a commercial portfolio note, 5% down, very low interest rate, 20 year amort, 5 year balloon. It took awhile before I could negotiate this type of financing package but if you do enough business with a good lender over the years they can get very creative.

I live in one of the fastest growing and most popular areas of the State. This minimizes the risk concerning future appreciation. Some might say I'm lucky to live here but there is no luck involved, it was a conscious decision. If I lived in Flint I would probably not suggest investing in real estate. On the other hand I don't think I would ever live in Flint, no disrepect to those who do live there, it's just not an area that appeals to me.

Real Estate investing is not for everyone and I think it should be part of a balanced portfolio but it does offer the younger investor a way to make some serious advances in net worth quicker than they can by just investing in traditional forms of investment.

Besides, after listening to our Governors State of the State address the other day it appears that Michigans economic future is so bright we better break out the shades, so property can only go up in value! :lol:

Luv2hunteup

01-31-2006, 07:35 PM

How did you aquire your land?

Here's the Cliff note version:

I started saving plus investing the savings starting in 1970 and bought my land in 1997. After I finally decided on exactly what constituted my ideal dream property I took another 5 years to find it.

Here's the best advice I can give you; buy the best soil you can afford. You can change or add just about anything to a piece of hunting land but the hardest thing to change is the soil type.

You don't have to put your hunting land purchase totally on hold. I bought into large hunting/family club to keep me actively hunting in the mean time. For well under $10k you can join a family orientated club in NE Michigan. There are clubs such as Lost Lake Woods Club in Alcona county that are great for young families. Check it out, you may find out you can already afford to join.

Whit1

01-31-2006, 07:37 PM

Excellent posts, fairfax.
Amongst the things I discovered, was this - there is no feeling of earthly wealth quite so satisfying as walking up to the top of the hill, looking all about you, and reminding yourself, "wow, this is my land".

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/551/medium/420CentPkSoys1104.JPG

I couldn't agree more!

In my case we had purchased a home in Grand Rapids in the late 60s, got a couple of years of equity into it and then we moved north.

We looked for a home to buy, but the pickings were less than slim so we bought 40 acres of mostly flat open field with 3 acres of a bit of higher land with huge sugar maple trees, an old apple orchard and smaller brush/trees. We sold off 14 acres, which basically paid for the land, built the house on the small rise and planted about 1/2 of the open field with pines and spruces.

One way to "finance" the land is to purchase a larger piece and then sell off part of it. Smaller parcels go for more $$ per acre than a large piece.......in theory anyway. Of course we had the equity...$6000 from the home in GR that we sold. Back in '73 when we purchased the 43 acres it cost us $10,000. That was quite reasonable back then and even moreso today.

I agree with the comment about making a land search a part of a hobby.

By the way, I know of 140+ acres for sale not far from here with a 2 bedroom log home, trout stream (a dandy) and swamp. Most of the property is wetland/wooded and excellent deer hunting. All I need is about $450,000. Anyone wanna help me out?.......:lol:

halfczech

01-31-2006, 07:53 PM

You can never tell how or where you will find that special piece of land. When I was looking for land I had 2 realtors 1 from gladwin and 1 from west branch looking for me. On my way to look at some land I noticed some old prop line stakes along a ditch. I stop and found an old real estate sign at bottom of ditch. Long story short the land had been on the market for over 2yrs the listing realtor was out of the business so no one really knew about it. Got a decent deal.

JAG

01-31-2006, 10:51 PM

When I started looking for land many years ago, I remember thinking, holy s--t that guy is asking $200 an acre for that swamp? No way. The piece I finally bought was $2000 an acre and I thought I got a deal.:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tedd

01-31-2006, 11:01 PM

Great advice ny all.

The first thing I did before looking for land was to "get approved" by a lender . Once approved, I then began my search. Once I found land that I liked, it was just a matter of negotiating with the seller, knowing I had 100% of the funds (my own and borrowed) lined up and waiting for me. Was the same as cah to the seller and put me in a better buying position.

Gilbey

02-01-2006, 09:08 AM

This is a great post. Sidetracking to the tenants. I will NEVER have a rental again. I agree with spreading it out, but that takes some serious capital to do as well. After evicting two "groups" in a row, I sold it, it took some sweat just to get it back to saleable.

Can any of you think of some creative ways to get into this one? I have probably 20% equity in a 20 acre piece, the 18 next to me is going to go up for quite a good chunk for the UP cuz the guy that owns it lives downstate and thinks he owns a gold mine. It's not, but he thinks land is worth 2500/acre up here. How can you finance that without losing your positive equity? But....the price is worth it long term and short term. Turns my land from "slightly huntable" to a gem, literally.

For those of you like the teacher for example, CHECK into the MISHDA loans or something along those lines. Little to no downstroke/cost and your payemnts typically are not much different than your rent payments. Break the rent cycle!!!

GRUNDY

02-01-2006, 09:38 AM

I would have to agree with renters. I have 3 rental house nearby, and they are the eyesore of the neighborhood, the yards are trashed, busted cars laying around, everything in shambles. To top it off they are all inconsiderate, barking dogs, trash blowing all around the neighborhood, walking the dogs to my yard to crap etc...

Keep it up with the good ideas, this is benefitting alot of people.

Gilbey I would be leary of paying that kind of price for land up there, just for fear of driving up the cost for the rest of the area. However, if it is worth it to you then by all means. I bet he drops his price after a while.

Brian

NorthJeff

02-01-2006, 09:52 AM

Gilbey, that's a tough one. Market value, and the value of that property to you because it is located adjacent to yours might be two entirely different values. Land prices have not been increasing that rapidly over the past couple of years...at least as much as some might think. I've seen a little bit of a stabilization of land prices over the past few years. In the Rock area, for example, which is very good deer hunting, most 40's are selling for under 50, and over 38. To pay top dollar for 18 acres, you have to consider what else you can buy for that, and that is what the market does as well. Unless there is marketable timber on it, it sounds like you might have some negative equity to begin with...which means you have to come up with a lot more cash to purchase. Also, if you can, just for referrance, never pay attention to what land is listed for around here..only what it is selling for. Over our way it is common for property to be listed 20% higher than it actually sells for, so values can be deceiving to the casual observer. You see a cabin and acreage listed for $179,000 and when it sells 18 months later you think prices must be on the increase. But, what neighbors and people in the area don't realize is that it sold for $125,000 and they had to add 8 acres to make the sale work...happens all the time to the point I start at least 20-25% below the purchase price with offers and the last thing we bought listed through a realtor we paid 20% below asking price, after starting about 30% below asking price with our first offer. In a normal market you should be 5-10% below asking price and the more you ask for a property, and the further you get away from market value outside of that 5-10% range, the less likely you are to receive market value. In fact, I've seen many, many cases where people did not receive market value due to an initial asking price that was grossly above market value, and they had to wait a year or more to sell. There is a saying in real estate that heavily applies to this area..."Price it high, watch it die", and it is so true.

That's a tough one though, is there timber on the property that you can cut? Also, consider a "First Right of Refusal" option. You pay him (unless you can get it for free!) $500-$1000 for a right to at least match any accepted offer the property owner may find. It typically will not hinder the marketability of the property in any way, and it allows for the property to be exposed to the market to receive true market price offers. The owner may refuse several offers, and then come to their senses. At that point the First Right of Refusal can be very valuable because it protects you from having him sell it for a low price without your knowledge and legally he has to present to you any accepted offer for you to match.

The First Right of Refusal option is a great tool to have for any neighbors property you may want to buy someday.

BarryPatch

02-01-2006, 11:19 AM

Definitely discount "list" prices. My property was listed at 200K and was on the market for almost a year. It was re-listed for 145K so I called that same week and I paid 130K after some hard bargaining. The guy owed 2 years taxes on it and really needed the money. It pays to find out why people are selling. In that regard it's good to talk to neighbors if possible. Also, don't let a Realtor walk you around the place. They'll sometimes steer you away from things that you should see. Like the overgrown dump(s) in the ravine so common on farm properties.

hogkiller

02-01-2006, 11:56 AM

Just keep your eyes and ears open, the deals are still out there. It took us 4 years of looking but we ended up finding the typical "little old lady" in kalkaska selling 20acres for 19k. You would be amazed how much change you collect in the change jar in 4 years.:)

Gilbey

02-02-2006, 11:07 AM

My situation is pretty tough regarding the 18 acres.

A. Business has been tough the last two years. My credit is getting better but went downhill fast. My bills are typically 10K per week, and without solid cash flow, things get tough.
B. So, probably no to getting conventional financing at this point.
C. The downstate guy doesn't owe anything, and doesn't need to sell, it's just a thought that he'd like more acreage.
D. He paid 28K for it and now he thinks it's worth 40/50.
e. My 20 acres if mainly for my wife and her horses, open field, one wood line to plant a food plot, but then an easement road for this downstate guy is just inside the woodline and is where this guy camps. In other words, he has my hunting locked up. He will not let me pay him to hunt it. He hasn't hunted it in two years. His land is a chunk of cedar with a creek located between our field and a neighboring field. GREAT BUCKS.

Jeff, PM my on this right of refusal stuff, I'm very interested in how it works. Thanks in advance.

Gilbey

02-02-2006, 11:09 AM

Oh, and bad side to if he sells and I don't buy it: military retiring couple wants it to put 4 rentals along the whole wood line. In other words, I would lose my entire view of "nature" off my deck. Instead of looking at the woods I wanted to hunt, I'd look at rentals. Hmmmmmm.....:bash:

muskrat

02-02-2006, 11:21 AM

Ive been looking or at least trying to figure out how much land I could afford. Been looking a northernmichigan.com I believe it is a bunch of different properties for sale thru different companies. Looking at Cheboygan and Presque Isle area. From what I can tell the average vacant acre is going for about 2500 to 3000 and acre. I would like to get a 20 acre piece of land but thats a little to much to afford right now. I mostly bowhunt so I think that should be adequate enough. Also looking at the closeness to state land and if possible adjoining state land. Anyone have property that adjoins or fairly close to state land, if so does it work out okay for you, more property to hunt or any problems with that.
Thank
Matt

Ferg

02-02-2006, 11:38 AM

Also looking at the closeness to state land and if possible adjoining state land. Anyone have property that adjoins or fairly close to state land, if so does it work out okay for you, more property to hunt or any problems with that.
Thank
Matt

This was my 'thought' too - but - after closer investigation - I found that most people that have private land that abutts state/fed land have a nightmare of time with recreational tresspass -

ferg....

So I didn't buy adjoining - but - I did buy with a mile or so :)

NorthJeff

02-02-2006, 01:29 PM

Ferg, that is not the case in a lot of the U.P. Often, private land can block off large areas of public land and with most people not going in further than they can bait nowdays, you can actually have much more land to actually hunt without anybody around. Some of the best situations around here are when you find a 10-40 acre parcel at the end of a 2-track, surrounded by public land, in a remote area. Because there are so many 1000's upon 1000's of acres to hunt up here, people are much less likely to tresspass, especially if they have to walk in a 1/2 mile to do so, and if you only have to invest in 10-40 acres, you can potentially have hundreds of acres or more, that you never see another hunter on, for a pretty cheap price. Those locations are more common that one might think, up here anyways. Even better, some of those locations are by gated access only with a 1/2 mile or longer driveway, with you being the only one to have a key!

Ferg

02-02-2006, 01:31 PM

Yea - should have qualified my post - in the area that I was looking, NELP - I found that to be the case -

ferg....

I would love to have a 40 in the UP around 1000 acres of fed/state land.

Trophy Specialist

02-02-2006, 02:39 PM

I started looking for my first land in the mid-80s when I first met my now wife. We both had the same goals and saw the value in owning land and addressed that as out number-one priority early on. We lived in a crappy apartment in Ann Arbor for three years while we skimped and saved for land. I worked overtime at every opportunity and by 1988 we started actively looking for land in Washtenaw Co. A couple deals fall through, which was a blessing in disguise. Through a friend, we eventually came across parcel coming on the market with a motivated seller. It was a 39 acre parcel that the owner wanted 26K for. We paid cash for that deal of the century. We started construction on a house in 1989 and finished in early 1990. We finally got married in 1990, which was a lower priority than getting land and a house in the country. Lessons learned: prioritize your land investment and network like crazy. When you find a good deal, don’t mess around.

By 1993 my career was going very well and money was good so I got the itch to buy more land, but in the U.P. I started looking and it took me two years before I figured out that it wasn’t going to happen through realtors. It seemed like realtors only got the junk parcels. The area I wanted property in was pretty narrow, so I used a platt book to cold call a bunch of people in the area that owned multiple large parcels. Most responses were not productive, but I always asked if they knew of anybody else that might want to sell some land. Eventually I was referred to someone with property coming up for sale and bypassed the realtors. Unfortunately it was more property than I could afford, but he was willing to do some creative financing. In the agreement, some logging was done and once finished; we were free and clear. In 1997 a landlocked parcel came up for sale that boarded my U.P. land and I bought it very cheap. At that same time I put 80 acres of the original purchase up for sale (it was the least desirable of my land) and even though it was recently logged, I sold that aspen whip parcel for almost 50% more than I originally paid for it. The acreage that I kept is prime and I will never sell it. I used the profits and capital from the sale to buy more property elsewhere and I have kept buying and selling real-estate to this day. It has always been a good investment. Lessons learned in the process: Network like crazy and creative financing can be worked out if both parties are willing. Logging contracts are a great way to reduce the cost of property. Ads in Woods N Water News and Michigan Out-of-Doors work well for selling property.

My take on real-estate values is that they will not start going down much until baby boomers reach senior status. Michigan will always have economic ups and downs and that hasn’t negatively affected real-estate values for the long term. When the Boomers start retiring (or dieing) in mass then it is my opinion that things will change.

shotgun12

02-02-2006, 02:53 PM

nice pease of land.

trailsend

02-02-2006, 06:04 PM

We looked at a plat book and took a drive around looking for deer during gun season several years ago (without our guns) and found a area that had lots of deer sign and deer sightings during the day. We found a parcel of land (125 acres) that was at the deadend of a road. The name on the plat book parcel was the same as a mailbox we saw a couple miles away so by chance we went and knocked on his door. We had a nice conversation and told him we liked the area and would love to hunt if we could get permission. He told us there were 4 guys from illinois that hunt there every year but they leave by the 3rd or 5th day of gun season.So for 4 seasons we would wait for them to leave and then we would hunt the property. We made trips back in the summer and always made it a point to stop and see the old farmer, take him out to dinner etc. etc. Then one day he stopped down to this property he owned and we were at the truck with a bag of pop cans,candy wrappers,beer cans etc. that we had cleaned out of these ground blinds we found on his land. We became great friends and when he decided to retire he offered us the property at 500 per acre on land contract ( at 3.5% !) We bought it in 97 so 6 more years to go! We have had offers for triple what we paid, he likes to remind us of that. But he told us he paid 26k for it 87. There are still good people out there is the moral of my story i guess. We always loved the place but thought we could never afford it but we treated it like it belonged to us.

bjmad

02-03-2006, 10:16 AM

I aquired my 54 acres through my family. My dad had purchased 200 acreas in 1972 for $14,000.00. As his four sons got married, we were able to pick the 40 acres we wanted as a gift. I recieved 14 more acres later when I built my camp on the property and I now live there with my two tomboy daughters. My land is surrounded by relatives. So, in other words, I was very lucky to receive land that I didn't have to pay for. My brothers don't use their land very much but I like using it. :) They also have property elsewhere so it gives me the opportunity to move around more when I hunt. I am also the only one that hunts the property.

bishs

02-03-2006, 01:08 PM

In 1994, I was out driving 5 miles from my house and passed a land for sale sign. The land was 40 acres of open farmland.
It was bordered in the back, and part of both sides by large woodlots. The property had treelines along 2 fencerows and a creek.
The rest was farm fields. My mind started churning, and I called on the price. After 1 week of convincing my wife, I made an offer.
I bought it on land contract for $900 an acre. Most people thought I was crazy and paid way too much! Today its worth $2,500 an acre.

The plan was to plant all the land, to trees, shrubs, foodplots, and other wildlife habitat. I talked to a few biologists, and read everything I could get my hands on.
10 years later I was finished.
15,500 trees and shrubs planted
5 acres in foodplots
5 acres in prairie grasses
3 shallow water ponds
1 dike 20 foot wide, 10 feet deep 700 feet long.
We built a home there 2 years ago.

yooperkenny

02-05-2006, 01:09 PM

My brother and I started searching for acreage in the western UP around 1995. We each had some savings but really didn't know how the final deal would wash out - only that we someday wanted a place of our own we could hunt fish and camp on and it wasn't going to be any cheaper 5 years down the road. Checked out a lot of listing that were either too expensive or didn't seem to fit what we were looking for.

In '98 we learned of a 40 in Houghton County offered by a logging co out of Wisconsin that was being handled by a local realtor. We took a drive out and it became apparent that the realtor really didn't know where this property was! We were pretty sure we were close to it and liked the area so over the following weeks did our homework - topo maps, platte books, etc. Finally while hiking in an area about a mile from where the realtor had us looking, I found a state survey marker for one of the corners. Using the compass found 2 more markers that day. Were thrilled when we saw the beautiful clear cold creek with native brookies running through one corner of the 40. Through luck, good timing and taking a little risk we siezed the opportunity, came up with the $$ and made the deal - things fell into place and we never looked back.

QUOTE "Looking at Cheboygan and Presque Isle area. From what I can tell the average vacant acre is going for about 2500 to 3000 and acre."

WOW! We never would have been able to swing something like that. We stumbled upon this paradise for less than $500 per acre - it's appraised at well over 3x that now! For me and most Yoopers this is a no-brainer - remote uncrowded pristine wilderness with deer, bear, partridge, and brookies for less money? Is this heaven or what? :)

QUOTE "Because there are so many 1000's upon 1000's of acres to hunt up here, people are much less likely to tresspass, especially if they have to walk in a 1/2 mile to do so, and if you only have to invest in 10-40 acres, you can potentially have hundreds of acres or more, that you never see another hunter on"

I agree with NJ on this. We are surrounded by Copper Country State Forest and CFA land. Can walk/track for hours no problem. Even though a seasonal road cuts across on corner of our 40 only one trespasser in 8 years - a guy from SW SLP with his teenage boys late rifle season. Explained to him that he's on private land and there's tens of thousands of acres they can hunt without being on top of us - he moved on without too much grumbling - we don't have our 40 posted and hope that it never becomes necessary to do so.

So "How did we acquire our land?" - some luck, persistent searching, creative determination and taking a little risk when the opportunity presented itself.

UpNorthWOLF

02-06-2006, 04:50 PM

After selling my house and marrying a lady with her own home I took my equity and we started looking (that was the plan), slowly moving up the state. We wanted a house and a square 10-15 acres (planning for vacation use and retirement). Saw some real crap along the way and were lucky enough to have an early bid declined (the wife liked the house), but kept moving north. We finally lucked out in northern Cheboygan County with a great house on fifteen acres (the owners were getting divorced and liquidating and it had been on the market about eight months) with great neighbors (lets us have access to their 60+ acres) and lots of state land around. We love the historic Straits stuff, as well, and Cheboygan has needed amenities and the county is ATV/snowmobile friendly. House is bigger, newer, and better than our suburban cookie-cutter house (yet cost about what I sold my downstate suburban house for), so it is hard to call it the "cottage." Woods are mostly maples and birches (with some poplars and beeches). I'll be knocking down some jack pines and poplars (specific spots) and planting some Morse hybrid oaks, fruit trees/bushes, and food plots to get the habitat thing going. Had it less than a year so far, but we are in bliss. Coming back home down state is always hard.

Rick

Lenaweebowhunter

02-12-2006, 03:55 PM

My wife and I bought our farm in 1981 on a land contract, she was working for one of the major auto companies and I was an engineer for supplier company. Times were tough, the economy was down and we each drove very long commutes to our jobs dayly. We had just purchased our first home on three years prior to that, so here we were with two kids two jobs and and two major payments to make every month. We saved and lived rather meek livestyles with one goal; to eventualy pay off the land and bulid a new home on it. Well hard work and sacrifice did pay off, the economy grew I moved to better paying jobs/contracts and was able to pay the land off in 1995. We statred buling our dream home in 1998 and have lived here since October of 2000. This land by the way is the same land I learned to hunt on as a young boy. My parents own a 70 acre parcle that is our west fenceline.
All of us need goals to work towards, nothing beats the threat of lossing your hunting spot as a major stimulant to get up and go to work every day. We have never had second thoughs about buying this farm, Farmlegend said it so well in his previous post, you cant beat the feeling of looking across the lanscape and saying to yourself this is my land!

shotgun12

02-12-2006, 04:38 PM

good luck with the land.

steveh27

02-20-2006, 11:37 AM

I could write a book on my experiences. I'll try to be brief. First, I still own my original home where I lived for 10 years, 1 block from the 50 yard line of the Michigan football stadium. I have rented it for 23 years & have had good tenants & nightmares (3 evictions). I do wish I had bought more Ann Arbor homes to rent back in 1973 before they spiked in price. I paid 27K, have invested over 15K & value it around 250 now. I do not want to sell it because of attachment & I love going to the games & parking cars on the lawn. It's still a hassle dealing with bad tenants, city inspectors, etc. I've been told by many of my good tenants I'm the best landlord in Ann Arbor. I take care of the place as if I live there, because I did & may return some year. I'm getting 995/mo for this 900 sf 2 BR brick.

I have lived in Grosse Pointe Woods since. I know Farm Legend & he's absolutely correct about declining housing prices. 2 flippers bought homes nearby & are still trying to unload them after 1 1/2 years. They are going to take a 10-20% loss. There are more homes for sale here than last year and more than at any time in history. A home did just sell quickly nearby, but the older lady just wanted out & had her son deal with a realtor. They sold it for under 180, but that house should have gotten 240. The buyer got a great deal. To be a buyer now would be good with a motivated seller. But to be a seller now would be very bad. One local realtor said there's more homes now on the market than will sell in 5 years! And that's without anymore coming on the market.

I have been trying to buy land with a modern home to move to. I'm a great lakes angler, turkey hunter then a deer hunter. I've found a place between Ludington & Manistee that's been on the market 2 years, visited it 5 times in 1 1/2 years, and made 3 offers last year. It has some tradeoffs: the land is sandy, the deer do not get big antlers, there's an old neighboring house in plain view 100 yds from the home & pond, there are 3 power lines crossing or adjoining, it's propane heat cost $2000/year; and it could be troublesome to manage my Ann Arbor rental from there. But, it has some things I value: on a paved road, 11 miles from the Lud launch ramp, close to Manistee's & the Manistee river for my steelheading; there are turkeys & some deer; it's close to a community college I could teach part time (I'm 55 & retired except for my rental); the buildings are only 12 years old, has pole barns for my boat & camper van.

She has been asking 379. My first offer was a 330 all cash offer, not contingent on sale of my home, only inspections, & let her stay in the home 3 months at $10/day. She countered 350. I countered 342 same terms. She did not budge & then refused inspections. I came back with the same offer & another of 345 contingent upon sale of my home. She came back 350 inspections OK. I walked away (last July). It's still on the market & she just lowered the price $10 to 369 after 2 years. Big deal.

I may reoffer, but with my home (1250 sf, 2 br brick ranch)declining in value (I thought I could get 215, but now may not get 190.) I would want to offer less. The owner, 60ish widow, believes it's worth more than it is (her late husband built it).

I've looked hard for over 2 years & visited quite a few places. Another alternative is to buy vacant land & build my own place to my needs. But, that would probably be too costly & it's difficult to find land I would want. So, here I sit just thinking.

Like Farm Legend I believe the key to success is living frugally & buying right. As I only get income from my rental & my limited investments I must be careful of not overextending myself.

steveh27

02-20-2006, 11:39 AM

I forgot to add the place has 60+ acres.

weatherby

02-21-2006, 07:17 AM

Freestone

02-24-2006, 11:24 AM

I think if you are just making it financially, have a child or two, spouse stays home to help raise the kids, you should put buying property on the back burner. It's more important to have mom at home with the kids and being able to afford some fun things with the family.

I know how tempting it can be to put the wife to work or get a second job or quit doing the fun things so you can afford to buy a piece of hunting property. You really have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you're doing this for your kids or really doing it for yourself.

After you save money for retirement, kids college expenses and have enough income left for savings, then and only then should you start looking at hunting property. Because frankly there are more important things in life than having hunting property.

KalamazooKid

02-24-2006, 11:47 AM

michaelt

02-24-2006, 11:50 AM

I saved money till i had enogh for a dwon payment then bought it. While my friends were on cruises and in mexico i spent my vacations at home and just put the money in the bank. Now they all hunt state land while i have 20 acres to myself

Wouldnt trade for the vacation time I spent with my family for anything, vacations were a yearly experence looked forward to, and enjoyed by all, but then to each his own

bishs

02-24-2006, 01:21 PM

Everyone has there own opinion on this, Let me give mine.
I have two kids 4 and 5, a boy and girl. We live out in the rural farm country. We have no close neighbors. My wife and I both work, and our kids go to a daycare 6 miles away. The kids love it and so do we. My son has no brothers to play with at home. There are 6 boys at daycare. They are learning to socialize and interact. It's actually a daycare for my boy, and its pre-school for my daughter who is 5.

Land is the best, safest investment you can make. I consider it the best investment I will ever make for my kids. They love fishing in the creek, exploring, walking down the lane; viewing wildlife. Besides the kids having a 40 acre playground, Who do you think will own it someday? It is worth 2.5 times the price I paid for it in 94.

Freestone

02-24-2006, 01:42 PM

I guess my point is. If you want hunting land. Buy hunting land. If you really want to do something great for your kids. Save a ton of money for their college educations. If you have enough money, do both.

swampstand

02-24-2006, 07:03 PM

I acquired my vacant hunting land the old fashioned way, nocking on doors.

I did not use an agent to bird dog land prospects for me. I didn't want to only limit properties to what was available on the market. I knew the area I wanted to buy land and although I did search religiously on Realtor.com, I nocked on every landowner/farmers door and told them I wanted to buy their land or a portion of it. IT WORKED. I was able to get a guy to split his property and signed a land contract. Payed it off 3 years later. I paid $15,000 for it back in 1990 and had it appraised 4 years ago at $80,000. I can get $100,000 for it today, it's got mature woods and beautiful building site.

There truly is no better feeling than to sit back on your own land knowing it's all yours.

I believe that nothing good in life comes easy. You have to go out there and get it. I nocked on doors in approx 4 square miles. Lots of no's, a couple of check back laters, and one yes.

Turns out his daughter was going off to college in a few months and he wanted to help pay for it. Worked out great for both of us.

I REALLY want to build a house on this land and some day I know I will. Trying to get a pole barn built but the city won't allow it without a house on the land. Trying to find a way to get around this.

eddiejohn4

03-02-2006, 12:12 AM

I started a LLC ,and went in on land with 6 other friends.We purchased on a land contract with 3000 dollars down a piece.we brought our first 200 acres this way.Now we have grown considerably.
Since I knew all the guys I knew that this would not be a problem.We also adressed all the concerns with a lawer while setting up the LLC.

davidshane

03-04-2006, 04:19 PM

Buying smart, building good credit....and selling smarter!

One of the biggest mistakes I see new home buyers making in their young years, is buying their "dream-house". The bank says they can, the real estate agents say they can, and they buy it. They buy high, have litte to no equity, and their equity grows very slow, except for the best of markets.

Amen brother!

I have known my land since I was a kid. My family spent countless weekends and vacations up north camping, riding dirt bikes, fishing and hunting on state land. We always camped in the same general area - an area that surrounded about 240 acres of private property. Part of that acreage was a 95 acre piece that we called the porcupine shack. It had a small run down cabin and an old shed on it (the old shed was the porcupine shack). While this property and cabin had very little appeal to 999,999 in 1,000,000 people; to me it was part of what I felt was home.

I will skip back:

Like Jeff did, I started small. I saved some money in the military, and after getting out in 1989, I purchased a small house that needed a little work. Even after meeting my future wife and marrying, we stayed put in a house that wasn't all that we could afford but that allowed us the opprotunity to save and build for the future.

That would bring us to the purchase. I noticed that the guy who heald title to the cabin and land rarely used it, work kept him from enjoying the reason for his extra payments. I had my brother, who is a realestate agent and owns his own office, contact "Doug" and make him an offer on my behalf. Doug took some time and then let us kow that he wasn't looking to let it go right yet. I had Mike call him back and up the offer by 10g's. This time Doug agreed to sell.

When my wife saw the cabin before the closing date, she wondered why I would want such a neglected piece of property. I explained to her all the memories that I had running those woods. That in my head, those woods were like a second home to me. I tried to make her understand that I wanted to raise any future kids the way I was raised - to love the outdoors. I told her that we could change the place and make it into something special. She might have finally understood - I don't really know; but more importantly, she was onboard!

I can say now that it was without dout the right decission to buy. The place has under gone a complete change. The cabin is now clean and comfortable. I'm also starting habitat improvement projects that will leed to better hunting in the future. And on top of all that, during the weekend of the closing, we conceaved our first child while staying at our new/second home. My son Joshua's life started in the place that I wanted him to learn to love as much as I do.

Long story short:

Decide what is important to you, then live your life in a manner and make good decisions that will some day allow to to get there. You can know that land is a must have at some point in you life, but if you never make the right choice to get you there, no will never get there.

Sorry for the long story.

kdogger

03-06-2006, 09:05 PM

Amongst the things I discovered, was this - there is no feeling of earthly wealth quite so satisfying as walking up to the top of the hill, looking all about you, and reminding yourself, "wow, this is my land".

Wow! Seeing that picture and reading that line brought a tear to my eye!

God willing, one day I will join you fellas!

fishin' fin

03-07-2006, 09:29 AM

GRUNDY

03-08-2006, 10:30 AM

WOW! I think I need a new job! Land is definitely a long ways into the future, maybe even far enough that when the cash is finally available the land won't be. I'm holding onto hope and saving what we can right now. You guys with land are some forunate people, its been a good read.

Brian

nyls

03-09-2006, 12:40 PM

There is some really great advice on this post, a lot of you have been paying attention and making some very worthwhile strategies and suggestions.

I guess my input would be that trying to wait for things to improve to buy land is a game of catchup that it extremely difficult to get ahead of. My motto is do what you have to NOW to own something and then do what is necessary along the way to make it work out. This will fix your costs of getting in to a large degree and time will make it easier over the long haul. You will have the benefit of ownership from day one. You can always find ways for both you and the land to earn the extra income required to own it and you can also always involve other people to spread the costs around. This strategy often involves a Spartan lifestyle devoid of toys and frills, it's a matter of priorities. My final comment is that if you enjoy the outdoors, land is an investment strategy that provides a lot more feedback than the Dow Jones.

Have fun,
Dave.

unclegrizz

03-21-2006, 07:51 PM

I bought my property 8 yr's ago after looking for 2 yr's. 10 here 20 there, some way up north, some around Newaygo. Got a call from my X brother inlaw and he had a freind that was selling forty in grant. Wanted 35K for it and I was amazed at the price.
Called him and walked the property and wrote him a check for 500 bucks and told him to figure out what he wanted to do for payment. You know, landcontract, cash or what.
Called me and we did a three year land contract and I was in my glory. I've thought about selling it but I think it would be a great mistake for me.
It has everything you could ever want, opened land, swomp, hard woods, pines, a large thicket area I don't let anyone hunt. Best of all is the pond 600 X 75 ft and I caught the biggest sun fish every in my life last summer.
Now the grand kids are growing and loving it as much as myself.
Last week they sold 10acre's on the same road as me for over 43k. :yikes:

Great Thread and never give up.
Your's is out there somewhere!!!

Good Luck
Unclegrizz

QDMAMAN

01-17-2007, 04:09 PM

Just moving this up for review.
Big T

thetreestandguy

01-17-2007, 06:45 PM

Talked with a guy at a show in S.E. Ohio who stumbled on one...Had been dealing with an old (84) realtor in Pennsylvania. Realtor called him with the find of a lifetime. 550 acres, mostly wooded, for $400/acre! He was too old to care about it personally so he passed it to the customer. Turned out Granny died, willed to niece, she died right away, daughter got it afterward. The daughter was in Med. School, one year left. Never had seen the property, didn't care about it, wanted just enough money to pay for her last year of school! That's how they came up with the selling price if you can believe that!

While I did all the traditional routes, knocking on doors, calling realtors etc..., the one thing I haven't seen posted is LAND AUCTIONS!

When I met my wife (and we started living in sin) we started making double payments on the newly built house. We only had a 15 year note anyway but wanted to get it paid off ASAP. This affected our lifestyle but was well worth it.

We started looking into the unusual routes- back taxed property, foreclosures and auctions. Foreclosures and back taxes are tough as they only post legal descriptions and who the hell can understand those? My dad helped out on the ones that looked like large parcels (he took survey classes for civil engineering), but man, that was tough.

We started going to auctions that were: A) Generally in the area of interest B) Large chunks of property, with or without a house. Just wanted to get a feel for how they worked and what land went for at auction.

Well, the prices varied as greatly as the sizes of the parcels themselves. Finally started to feel comfortable that we knew what we were doing after attending several, and sitting at them for what seemed like hours. One thing we did notice is that the serious flippers were at each and every auction. There were always 2-3 people at each auction that were buying some serious quantities of dirt. It wasn't unusual to drive by some later on and see realtor signs out front.

After bowhunting one morning I drove less than a mile to a 192 acre chunk going up for auction, 19 parcels, biggest was 48 acres with a gravel pond. Walked it again the next morning after hunting. Took the wife out the next weekend. Both of us fell in love with the 48 acres.

I had been getting really cranky as it had been 3 years and a few failed attempts at purchasing. She kept saying it was happening for a reason, we'd get something better. Now SHE was the one saying it would sell for more than we could afford. I told her that's the beauty of auctions, you simply don't know what'll happen. For $5K we can get into the auction and get the money back if it doesn't work out. What have we got to lose but time?

I waited till the end of the auction, they call it a 2 minute countdown, bid up $1000 more than the last guy and no one else bid! We came in $12K less than our ceiling.

Dang, that was long! You'll go through lots of trial and tribulation. On top of the world when you find THE ONE, in the dumps when it goes bye-bye! On the money side of things you've already heard it many times, live thrifty and save everything! We had saved up a large bank account on top of nearly paying off our house (1.5 years left on the note). Every bank in the world will take you seriously when you walk in with a pile of cash and over 90% equity in your house! Once we built on this dirt we did another 15 year note, made double payments till I bought this company and put us in another mountain of debt. When I start getting a paycheck we'll go back to larger payments again...looking forward into the future so we can possibly increase the acreage!

If this is what you truly want you'll be the happiest man on earth when it finally happens! GOOD LUCK!!!

avb

01-17-2007, 07:10 PM

waiting to be able to afford buying land is almost impossible. it is one of those things you just have to stress yourself financially to do. then as time goes on and you squeak by with your payments, your land starts to increase in value. one day you will wake up and realize you may have 60 grand (on paper) equity in your farm and you think to yourself, why didn't i buy more. one thing that i do to "save" money is to take more out in tax deductions. so instead of having uncle sam take out 200 a week in taxes, i change that to 250 or 300 a week. come tax return time, i get all that back because i overpaid. i never seen it on my check and i never spent it. i know i know all the interest uncle sam gets and not me. yes true but i would have nickle and dimed that money away on this or that so it works for me to get it in one lump sum. it also makes you live on a tighter budget which can be a good thing. take that lump sum money and drop that as a down payment, or put it in equity in your personal residence mortgage. when you have enough equity you can borrow against your house to purchase the land. this loan can then still be written off on taxes since it is on your primary residence. no matter what though, it is not an easy task to accomplish but the feeling of climbing in to your own tree stand on your own land is, well, it's really good. best of luck.

Barothy

01-17-2007, 07:56 PM

I talked my brother-in-law into going in with me on the purchase. Cut my expenses in half and he rarely ever goes there.

SgtSlaughter

01-17-2007, 08:15 PM

While in elementary school I can remember getting all bundled up early Saturday morning to go cut wood with my dad back in the woods while other kids were watching cartoons. After the longest wait in my life I finally became old enough to hunt small game and bow hunt for deer. At the age of 16 the people we had been friends with my entire life told me that if I saved my money and obtained a good job they would sell the property to me. From my first job as a bag boy at a grocery store to my current job as a network engineer I put money away each paycheck knowing that one day I would be able to purchase the land that I had enjoyed my entire life.

Just last week, at 23 years of age, I closed on those same 223 acres of land and couldn't be an ounce happier.

My apologies if the post was a little sappy...........I blame Michigan Brewing Company IPA. :)

Slick fishing

01-17-2007, 09:13 PM

This is a great thread I love it because I am getting close to pulling the trigger on some property if I can find what I am looking for at a great price I hope, I am just waiting to see how are contract talks go then I will make my move.. You guys have been watching the market has land gown down in price at all since the down turn in the Michigan economy?

I really want to do a land contract with the right land owner if I can find him, there are some sweet parcels by my dads place in the thumb but my biggest thing is I want the country but not to far from the water eighter:lol:, I dont wanna have to drive to far to go fishing .. I went and checked on some property for sale by owner in the thumb area and she wanted just around $5000 a acre what do you guys think? it was 16acres fully wooded pond on the property and there also is a pole barn on the property as well, she wants $78000.000..

This property was used by her sons just for hunting and the kids are grown and dont use it, I figure my next land purchase will be where I retire and I want to make it the right one.. I have a lot of thinking to do because like I said I want close to the water and in the country so I will have to do some looking to find what the land I am looking for.. Cya Slick

eddiejohn4

01-17-2007, 09:43 PM

Started a LLC corp with good friends. In this way we could afford larger parcels. I do not think on my own that I would be as fortunate as I am.

thetreestandguy

01-19-2007, 11:23 AM

"I liked your post on land auctions. Im just starting to get involved and looking for the right auction.
Couple questions..

What is the best way to become informed or to find out about the auction??

Also, what did you mean about $5K to get in with nothing to lose?"

In my area, greater Lansing, there are a few newspapers that have weekly listings of auctions. These were the larger Lansing State Journal covering a wider range and then the smaller local community based rags. Their in the classified sections. It's in the auctioneers best interests to have the most people attend as possible to drive up prices. I found that a lot of these folks were neighbors just snooping around to see what land went for and who the new neighbors would be (free coffee/donuts doesn't hurt either).

You should also figure out who the local auctioneer houses are, even ones that are over an hour away. There is a couple of auction houses in G.R. that sell in a pretty wide radious so I kept an eye on their websites. One in particular seemed to specialize in farms, be it the equipment or the farms themselves, always seemed to have several future farm auctions posted on their site. They all have websites listing future auctions that generally have pretty detailed info- i.e. how large in total, how many seperate parcels and their sizes, which parcel has a house included (if at all), plat type maps showing the entirety and individual splits within, etc... This gives you great indications of the property without ever having to leave your comfy house. There were any number of auctions we didn't attend simply because there wasn't enough property, wasn't in the right location, whatever. They also always had open houses where the realtor/auctioneer would be there for a few hours at a crack to answer any questions you may have.

This got sticky a couple of times with my wife and I not agreeing on certain chunks, but I suppose that happens no matter the vehicle. We passed on some great dirt near Nashville that had a river running smack through the middle. Looked like great hunting, confirmed by a local friend, and it caused a bit of tension in the house!

Anyway, these things can be a bit tricky in how they work, too much to get into in detail. You can bid on different combinations of parcels (just 1, 4 out of 10, or the whole thing together) and if there are lots of parcels you've really got to be on the ball with the math end of it. Mine had nearly 20 parcels so to be honest I brought my math wizard father so as not to get overwhelmed if it was going faster than my pee brain could handle!

As to the $5K...it's a pretty standard number for auctions. You sign up at the auction beforehand. Some require proof of the ability to pay such as a signed note from a lender. You then hand over $5K, or whatever the amount advertised is, which is totally refundable if your not successful on any parcel. If you are successful then they will hold on to your money as a secured means of you closing the deal. You can imagine how irked they would be if you never closed after the auction and losing thousands is a good motivator to close.

Another interesting note...my new neighbor did it in an odd fashion I found out later on. I got the largest chunk, he was next at 40 acres. When the bidding went beyond his means through a traditional bank (he owned a house with about 30 acres and probably was capped at what the bank would lend) turns out he mossied over to the seller and started talking right in the middle of the auction. He asked if the seller would hold the note for a year at an agreed upon (higher than normal) percentage rate so he could sell his house in the meantime. It was a win-win- seller got more money for the parcel, made some good interest in the year, and the buyer was able to get into new dirt. I thought that was pretty darn clever and something I would have never thought of in a million years. He was truly thinking outside of the box and was determined to get the property, great idea on his part!

When I worked at MUCC I had several auction houses bookmarked into their own folder and checked them weekly for new listings. Sorry to say that I don't have them anymore. Don't know where your at but you can start searching key words on the internet and watching your local papers for leads to watch.

Another side note, there were several people there for speculation. One poor guy bought 9 parcels and couldn't (can't) give them away. Others have also been sitting for sale for 3 years now. Ironically, the guy with 9 parcels held another auction with the same auctioneer and couldn't sell even one parcel! There were several parcels ranging in the 3.5 - 5 acre area, several more around 15 acres and finally the larger 2. The smaller ones went upwards of $10K/acre and ours was under $3K/acre, so the prices can vary greatly within an auction. I guess that was the origanal point of my posting...you simply never know what can happen at auction. We expected ours was going to go well out of our price range, so much so that my wife was dead-set against going. She knew we were both going to be in the dumps if we didn't get what really is a dream property for us! Turned out it was a nasty stormy night and I was a bit surprised at how few people seemed to be there when compared to the previous auctions we had attended. The weekend daylight auctions seemed packed, this was a weeknight with crappy weather.

A cousin got wind of a truly astonishing auction...Due to divorce someone was forced to sell the farm. Didn't want the ex to get a damn thing so he arranged with the auctioneer not to advertise the sale. Plan was for his buddy to show up, purchase it for next to nothing, split proceeds with the ex and then purchase back from the buddy afterward when it was clean. Problem was that someone opened their mouth. My cousin was the only other one to show up (purely for re-sale purposes) and got over 200 acres for about $200/acre! Naturally his buddy wasn't willing to shell out lots of dough to save his butt and there was no one else there to drive up the price to fair market values. The guy got truly screwed with his grand scheme!

Another long one, hope it helped for those who may have had some questions on auctions.

anderson3

01-19-2007, 06:07 PM

I am involved with two parcels of land. One is a hunting camp that has been around almost 80 years. 25 of us own 150 acres and some nice buildings, etc. So, to acquire that land, I did what it took to join the club, and paid a fairly small investment fee.
My home is on 75 acres. To acquire that, we bought a run-down house in order to be able to afford one with land, then worked hard to fix it up.
Buying the land was a sacrifice financially. If we had bought a (nicer) house in town we would have more money available for other things. The land ownership is worth every penny to us, though.

remcorebond

07-24-2008, 03:08 PM

I had been hunting Clare county on a freinds 40 acres. When i got married in Oct 06 my long lost cousin from Montgomery <hillsdale county> came to my wedding. After talking for a while hunting came up and he told me that he didnt hunt but knew a few people who leased land. So after hearing this i forgot that i just got married and bothered him with 100 questions. Well anyways after looking at the land and giving the owner the 650 she wanted i had my own 30 acres oct. to oct. I have to say im one happy man. SW hillsdale county with plenty of corn and soybeans. I use it mainly for bow and still do opening day gun in Clare. I now jones year round and there aint a better feeling :D

Ferg

07-25-2008, 08:05 AM

Shamless plug - for those still looking - I have 20 in Alcona for sale :D

ferg....

Lyle7289

07-25-2008, 09:10 AM

I bought my property at 33 years of age, I am now 38. It is a small piece of just 10 acres but it serves me well. I too have children and wanted the sames things for my children as you. I am an avid outdoorsman and was always up north at other properties that were owned by friends or kin. I told my wife that we need to get our own.

My mother always told me that there are two good times to by property. Yesterday and twenty years ago.

My wife and I started to look around and visit properties in an area where we could afford and the funny thing is I could not afford anything as my family and I are on one tight budget.

Anyway, after looking and looking, we were able to find a piece of property with a house that some folks were selling via land contract. The price and terms were right for me and I jumped in (after all the legal papers were looked over of course). I was able to afford this which was hard on the pocket book at times but it worked. My mother ended up passing and left my sister and I money so I was able to pay it off and now she is all mine, free and clear.

Get what you can afford. It might be a parcel or 5 to ten acres but it will be yours!! Now, when I drive north it seems that every other place is for sale and I know there has got to be some GREAT deals out there for you. You just gotta look.

One thing to keep in mind is that if your place is too far away from your home it makes it hard to get there as much as you would like. Trust me, I know. My place is about 3.5-4 hours away and it is hard with the gas prices and all.

This was the best investment I have ever made in my life. HANDS DOWN!!

Good luck to you my friend!!

gambler14580

07-25-2008, 02:43 PM

I just turned 30 and a year ago I scored on a property of a lifetime. I had been looking for something inexpesive with lots of potential for the guy who was willing to put the work in. I searched all over MI but could not find a thing. I grew up in Upstate NY where I enjoyed great hunting with little pressure - so I started looking there. Soon enough I found what I was looking for. A property that has little potential to make me a millionair because of its location and lack of road frontage (a good thing for a hunter), some income potential in timber, leased tilleable acreage, horse pasture, gas lease, and timber management tax program. I jumped on it. I paid about $750/acre. How I did it was to save every penny I could to be able to put down 15%. My mortgage is through Greenstone Farm Credit, I got a decent rate (7%) without a dwelling on the property.
My advice is to pull the trigger.

HuntingTimeYet

07-25-2008, 10:00 PM

My brother and i received 40 acres my grandfather left to us. It was the land he grew up on as a child, and he purchased from his mother. Our plans are to do the same for our children. That means i need to acquire another 60 acres since i have 2 children with another due Oct. 15th. Yeah i know... :) My brother has two kids so he needs to acquire 40 acres more. My goal is to obtain the additional acreage after getting my wife thru her master program (one semester left!!!). Then she can get a job that would be extra income. As for my part, i have been investing $70 a week in stock that i get at a 15% discount for 4 years so far. Oh, every raise is split between increasing 401K and the week investment. My wife and i have made many sacrifices to make this work, mainly cutting out cable and going out. We make sure it does not effect the kids. My age is 35.

tdduckman

06-30-2009, 07:26 AM

I have owned my own hunting heaven twice.

in 1990 I purchased 80 acres in Jackson county with a house that need a lot of work.
in 2003 I had to move for a job and had to sell the land, which by that time was great habitat.

2005 I was able to relocate back to Michigan and purchased a house on lake somerset, as that was what my wife wanted, but we did not buy the biggest house we could afford, we purchased at about 50% of what we had alocated for mortgage payments. This way I could continue to look for "my land"

In 2007 after looking a multiple properties over 2 years I was finally ready to act, I purchased 110.6 acres 2.5 hours from my home for $1400 an acre. I could not be happier.

Some advise and learnings from both experinces:

1) Be willing to walk away from any deal

2) look hardest at land that has been on the market over 1 year the sellers are more willing to deal

3) most hunter think they need "woods" to see deer, fully wooded parcels are over priced and overrated.

4) swamps and wetlands tend to be lower priced and better hunting

5) if you think you want/need 20 acres do not look at smaller parcels, you will always want more land then you have.

6) look carefully at the roads, neighbors, and other local factors

7) draw a circle on the map of where you want the land to be and stay in the circle - I knew I wanted to be able to get to and from my land in one day so my limit was 2.5 hours away, I could have purchased more land further away but I knew I would get there less.

8) land contracts - both of my deals started out that way, if you don't understand them do some research, they can allow you to really negociate some win-win situations

9) see the land not for what it is but what it can be - my orginal land in Jackson was 45 acres bare dirt, at the end that was 45 acres of prairie grass and food plots that had so many pheasants it was featured on MOOD for opening day pheasants.

10) There is always more land then you think if a deal is bad then go elsewhere do not fall in love with the land till the deal is closed.

TD

farmlegend

06-30-2009, 10:43 AM

tdduckman, I chose the below three of your suggestions (all were good ones, by the way), because, in my observations, those were the ones which so many would-be landowners ignore, to their detriment.

1) Be willing to walk away from any deal.
I know a guy who was way too anxious to pull the trigger on a piece of land, the chief attribute of which was that it was close by to where he lived. Not only is this parcel difficult to hunt, and costly to improve, and, due to its layout, can probably only accomodate one hunter, but he overpaid for it as well. He could have done much better if he'd had a little patience.

3) most hunter think they need "woods" to see deer, fully wooded parcels are over priced and overrated.
Not much to add but amen. Give me a parcel of no more than 25-50% timber every time. Best if the woodlots are smaller and scattered. Open canopy cover is where its at.

9) see the land not for what it is but what it can be - my orginal land in Jackson was 45 acres bare dirt, at the end that was 45 acres of prairie grass and food plots that had so many pheasants it was featured on MOOD for opening day pheasants.
For those with the time, and the time horizon, to do so, this is a great way to go. Try to look beyond this year's hunting, and look long term.
I would take a bare ground 40, with good soil, a water source or the ability to create one, and the right kind of neighboring parcels, over a quarter section (160a.) of solid sandy-soiled woods every time, even if the absolute prices were identical.

Groundsize

06-30-2009, 11:16 AM

First off let me say that I baught my 40 acres last september and I was 27 at the time. I graduated from Central Michigan in 2004. A friend of mine who was my college roomate and longtime friend owned 80 acres just outside town. I think we hunted more than we went to class. Another piece of land we hunted was 10 miles south of school. This was our big buck hunting spot. We new all the big deer moved from one swamp to the next on a piece of land that was never hunted. The layout was nasty. In 2007 the 40 acres that was never hunted went for sale. At that time i didn't have the money to purchase it. I did pay for all my schooling with cash that I raised through my landscaping business that I ran part time while home from college and around town. I have an investment portfolio that was doing OK. In the summer of 2008 the land was still for sale and went to auction but it never sold still. I new at that time with the market getting beaten up it was my time to shine. I was in the area and stopped to take a look at the land. I then called my friend who owned the land to the north and told him I was going to make an offer on the land if he was not interested. He said he was looking for some lake frontage at the time. I then made them an offer on the land and they took it. I paid them with 40% cash and financed the rest through greenstone. I couldn't be more happy with the purchase.

Paul