DNR's idea for Barry Co. too extreme

[Benny]

I live and hunt in Barry county, just recently in our local newspaper I learned that the DNR has plans to lower Barry's deer herd by about 55%! That's from about 45-55 deer per sq. mi. now to 25-35 per sq. mi. Granted you see the ocasional deer killed by a car but no more than anywhere else you drive that has plenty of ag. land. There wasn't a clear reason for why they wanted to do this indicated in the article, but I can't come up with a good reason to lower the herd by that big of a margin. I could understand maybe 5-10% if there were concerns about carrying capacity or car accidents or whatever, but 55% sounds like a slaughter to me. Just putting this info out there for whomever it concerns. If this idea disturbs you I would suggest voicing that at deergoals@michigan.gov

[boehr]

Cool, I hadn't heard that but since the paper reported it I think I'll apply for an anterless permit for Barry County next year instead of Allegan County. Should have a better chance of being drawn since their going to kill all those deer.:)

[Swamp Monster]

Having hunted there, lived there and many miles of driving there, I tend to agree with the DNR's assessments. Lots of deer, lots of roadkilll. Now, like every county, they are not necessarily spread evenly throughout the county, but overall, a reduction is needed in my opinion, in some areas. Thats why I wish our DMU's were not set up by county line etc.

[JBIV]

Should have a better chance of being drawn since their going to kill all those deer.:)

What drawing, just go and buy one a day over the counter. With all that free time you are soon to be having you might as well help us manage the deer herd in Barry co.:)

[Isaac_62]

I have lived in barry county for 18 years and we do not have that many deer... I think we should not shoot so many deer so our deer numbers go UP.... there is no reason that i have ever seen to slaughter all these deer... as far as i know all around me we are not shooting but only 2 deer per farm next year.... The DNR is stupid and their numbers are completely wrong...idiots
-Isaac

[Swamp Monster]

Barry county does not have that many deer? Wow, heavon help you if you are ever forced to hunt any where else, you'd be in for a rude awaking! Anywhere in Barry County that has quality habitat (and thats most of the county) has a lot of deer. I love reading posts where people call the DNR stupid, yet can't present a single factual reason to back that up.

[NorthJeff]

Just looking at if from the outside from someone that would have a hard time explaining where Barry County even is, but.....does 25-35 dpsm (especially the 25) seem a little low for high quality ag mixed habitat?

[Benny]

Im not saying that we dont have a lot of deer or that we shouldnt thin some but i just think that 55% seems drastic.

[November Sunrise]

The DNR is stupid and their numbers are completely wrong... idiots...
-Isaac

You really ought to do yourself a favor and develop some basic understandings about the overpopulation challenges in your area and throughout S. MI. Meet with a DNR biologist and discuss the issue, read the the population goals proposal for Barry County so that you have a more comprehensive view of the deer overpopulation issue, etc.

I noticed in one of your previous posts that you mentioned going to class. Combined with the fact that your use of the term "idiots" is a common refrain from young people, I'm assuming you're a young man. Let me challenge you to break out of the mold of the typical MI deer hunter who spends their lifetime whining and complaining about the DNR while continually operating from a point of low or no understanding of game management. You're obviously passionate about hunting, instead of wasting your energy calling people idiots, re-direct your passion into learning and becoming educated. Our state needs a lot of people your age who are progressive in thought and understanding regarding deer management challenges and possibilities.

[Swamp Monster]

Just looking at if from the outside from someone that would have a hard time explaining where Barry County even is, but.....does 25-35 dpsm (especially the 25) seem a little low for high quality ag mixed habitat?


I would agree the 25 seems low, and to be honest, don't think they would get to that point no matter how many tags they give out. Part of the problem is the human population growth in and around that county....lots of deer/car accidents. I still think the population is high in some areas, lower in others of the county.

[Ferg]

You really ought to do yourself a favor and develop some basic understandings about the overpopulation challenges in your area and throughout S. MI. Meet with a DNR biologist and discuss the issue, read the the population goals proposal for Barry County so that you have a more comprehensive view of the deer overpopulation issue, etc.

I noticed in one of your previous posts that you mentioned going to class. Combined with the fact that your use of the term "idiots" is a common refrain from young people, I'm assuming you're a young man. Let me challenge you to break out of the mold of the typical MI deer hunter who spends their lifetime whining and complaining about the DNR while continually operating from a point of low or no understanding of game management. You're obviously passionate about hunting, instead of wasting your energy calling people idiots, re-direct your passion into learning and becoming educated. Our state needs a lot of people your age who are progressive in thought and understanding regarding deer management challenges and possibilities.

Great post JK - sound advice.

thanks

ferg....

wooops I mean 'NS'

[Ed Spin04]

Ditto with Ferg, Great post JK!

The MDNR is not our enemy. It is they who have the training, education and experience that we all can gain from. That doesn't mean that they do all things right. If they would stick to true science and not let old useless management methods and decisions continue, (that some think need to be defended) and stop the political BS, it would be a wonderful world.

25 deer PSM in good habitat area is indeed too low. 40-45 is more in line, but then again I do not have the training, education, and experience of our MDNR biologists. I'm just a lonely frog.

Back in the mid 1990's the MDNR Clare County field biologist estimated that the deer in the area I hunted was over 100 deer PSM. I certainly agreed for each firearm opening day I averaged 80 deer sightings. On January 3rd 1996, (a very early and severe winter) we combined the last of my 300 acres of corn and estimated 400 deer in one corn field right after it was combined. That's a lot of deer, severe winter or not. You, I'm sure can imagine the crop loss that showed up. It took several passes along each field edge before any corn fell into the hopper. This farm is a 120 acre parcel. Today I see no more than 60 deer in this field at most and that is in late February to mid March, (the most stressful time period).

The field biologist and I agree that the deer density now is around 60 DPSM and no one is complianing, not even the farmers. Yes, you read it right, (60 DPSM and no problems).

One size does not fit all!

[huntingfool43]

Sounds like a couple of you guys should have went to the meeting the DNR held. They are aware that all areas are not way over their goal but other areas are with lots of crop damage occuring. One farmer from south of Battle Creek and another closer to Hastings spoke about their overpopulation problems. The trouble is their high counts and the lower counts in other parts of the county all get thrown together and then you end up with a 55 percent figure. The better plan would be to figure out how to use the permits where needed and keep the lower areas from using them, micro management but it won't happen. So if you don't see many deer don't shoot the ones you do, it's up to us to decide if we are taking to many from our given area and stop blaming everthing on the DNR.

[Ed Spin04]

Huntingfool, your're right, except the DNR has a better handle on the number of deer that should be taken per area than the average hunter.

In our area in Clare County the farmers figured out the numbers of deer that should be taken through many years of experience and now we have a pretty good idea what our doe harvest should be. Remember, we see those deer all summer long and have a decent picture of deer numbers in the area.

Hunters in general don't have a clue, (their first day in the woods is the day before the opener) and besides they have a natural leaning toward having more deer than recommended. So, they need guidance.

[Thunderhead1]

Boehr, you might be interested that Allegan is suggested to reduce the herd by 33 percent and that there most likely will be a late anterless doe season too.

[JBIV]

[QUOTE=November Sunrise]You really ought to do yourself a favor and develop some basic understandings about the overpopulation challenges in your area and throughout S. MI. Meet with a DNR biologist and discuss the issue, read the the population goals proposal for Barry County so that you have a more comprehensive view of the deer overpopulation issue, etc.

Hey Issac 62, if your still reading this thread after the tongue lashing you got. If you ever get interested in doing the above, Barry co has a QDM group that meets once a month in hastings. PM me if you ever get interested.

[Isaac_62]

I am in the woods from october until january so i know how many deer i have around me.. i did go to the barry county dnr meeting and i thought it went well.. we dont have too many deer.. most people wouldnt believe it but how often do you hunt barry county??? for the square mile around me we are shooting less deer like i stated b4... do what you want on your property but when you shoot so many deer that you cut your heard by even 35 percent i dont think you will see too many deer... is that what you want??? when i go in the woods i love seeing deer and by shooting alot i wont see that many the next year... so to you guys that start slaughtering and that agree with dnr.. i hope you dont see a single deer the following season to teach you a lessson in deer managment... just to add i am a strong member in QDMA....so i read alot about deer managment... let them go and they will grow!!!! Just saying that the dnr has a terrible method for counting deer....

-Isaac

[huntingfool43]

Isaac_62

I hunt Barry County all fall, bow and gun for deer. If you went to the meeting than you know the problem with the county size DMU's and how they figure the number of antlerless tags per DMU. If you are not seeing the deer than don't shoot the ones you do see, it's up to us as sportsman to decide if our specific area is to low or over populated as long as they use the county lines as DMU's. Just because you can buy all the antlerless tags you want don't mean that's what is best for the heard in your area, buy one and let someone in an overpopulated area buy a fist full, simple as that. Nobody is saying to slaughter the heard.

[QDMAMAN]

FWIW,
The DNR has provided virtually unlimited antlerless permits and extended antlerless seasons now for several seasons running and asked hunters to control the numbers through recreational hunting in Barry County. Make no mistake one way or another the deer numbers will be reduced and who better than hunters to do it and do it right.

Some suggestions;
1.Take your does early and often when it is easier to ID them from fawns.
2.Limit your buck harvest for a year or two to 1 or none.
3.Invite guests from areas that don't have a late antlerless seasons to help with DOE harvest. And I might add, have some folks lined up to take the venison if evrybodies freezer is full.
4.Don't fall into the trap that if you don't see deer each time out that there aren't any left.
5.Talk to your neighbors and put together a plan to harvest does so your not speculating who shot what toward the end of the season and not getting the job done.

IMO, 55 dpsm is to many but 25 seems very low considering the habitat in Barry County.
On a side note I was suprised to learn that the MDNR is including fawns in there numbers. Traditionally fawns aren't part of the DPSM equation until they've reached their first birthday but they are included in this report.
Bottom line be proactive, impliment QDM practices, and put the deer herd 1st and everybody wins. JMO

Big T

[farmlegend]

Anyone worried about the prospect of a "slaughter" of deer in Barry County, forget about it. There's been essentially unlimited private land antlerless tags there for a number of years now, and still 45-50 dpsm?

Seems to me, given current regs, hunters will never be able to get density down to 25-30 dpsm in Barry County.

Like SM said, those hunting Barry County who are unhappy with deer numbers would be hurtin' bad if they ever had to hunt elsewhere. DNR says my DMU has an average of 32 dpsm, and that's plenty of deer to hunt for me. If we get down to the goal of 25-30, that'll be fine with me too.

[bigbuckhunter]

The People of Barry Co. are taking the DNRs dmu proposal too serious. I currently lease 1600 acres in the southern part of the county and we took seven does and a 148 class buck this year.Yes we can and will harvest the same amount of does but we control our lease. The majority of the county is made up of agriculture and private land. Only 7% of the whole county is public access. People the DNR has issued unlimited doe permits for the last 4 years for private land and yet the deer herd continues to grow. I am very involved with the Quality Deer Management Association I believe in their philosophy and have implimented the management goals on our property. The landerowners and hunters control the deer herd in Barry county not the DNR.


Bigbuckhunter
Barry County Branch QDMA
State Chapter QDMA Board Member

[Live2Hunt]

I hunt properties all over Barry County and know that the population varies greatly from area to area. As it has been stated several times we make the population and management decisions each time we decide to or not to shoot. All we can ask is that the DNR continues to give us the tools neccessary to make these decisions. Access to doe permits are very important on the properties where they are needed. Hopefully they wil consider changing the doe season to earlier in the year.
The best thing you can do to control the local herds is to get with your neighbors and start a Co-op. You can collectively evaluate the herd and decide if it needs to be reduced, increased, maintained, balanced, age structure increased, etc....... Contact one or some of us in the Barry County QDMA Branch and we can help show you how to get these Co-op's going.

[Ed Spin04]

Good posts, we wouldn't of heard this attitude shown here in the main just a few years ago. It is good to hear more hunters than ever say, "We need to take does".

Yes, there seems to be locations where taking too many does just doesn't seem to be possible.

Don't fall into that trap guys, it may seem impossible but it can happen and happen overnight. How soon we forget the early 1970's, when we had 500,000 deer in our entire state.

How did we get to only 500,000 deer in our entire country in 1900, when it is estimated that there were 35 million when good ol Columbus sailed the ocean blue?

I have posted in the past that in my area in Clare County, it was atrocious how many deer were out and about. We farmers were taking big hits around the mid to late 1990's. In 1998 four of us farmers took 120 does in our 2 square mile area using block permits. That was the end of the crazy deer numbers in our area and it happened in one year.

There is a right number of does to harvest per buck taken, with each area having its own correct ratio and following this ratio is all that is necessary.

[NorthJeff]

One of the things about taking does and reducing numbers to keep in mind as well. In southern locations the deer herd can rebound very quickly. Fawn production can be over 2 per doe and with very low winter mortality it's not a matter of when the herd will be rebuilt..but stopping it on the way back up soon enough to not have too many.

On the otherhand, in northern areas, especially moving into the northern 1/2 of the U.P., the fawn recruitment rate is typically .5, and we experience a 50% mortality on fawns...on an AVERAGE winter. So, in southern locations you have 2 fawns, and both typically make it through winter, but in northern areas you have .5 fawns, or just 25% of southern locations, and only 1/2 of those survive the winter, for a total of 12.5% of the potential of southern locations. Add in that a severe winter can take up to 80-90% of all fawns, and severe springs can be devistating as well, and you can see why we are still realing from the 350,000 deer we lost in two winters 10 years ago, the 110,000 fawns we lost in the U.P. in 2000-2001. Only with habitat improvement, especially winter habitat improvement, will the herd ever be back up to what it once was in northern areas.

Huge contrasts of total fawn production when comparing north to south, so if deer goals seem too aggressive...take heart, if mistakes are made they can be corrected quickly. Also, with much of the southern areas composed of high percentages of private land, land owners and hunters of private land have a lot to say about how many deer their own property protects and holds within the area, compared to others, with aggresive habitat improvements and strategic hunting tactics.