Another Frost-Seeding Quandary

[farmlegend]

I've got a rectangular, 1.25 acre food plot, which I planted with winter wheat & oats last September. Right after I planted it around the 19th of September, we got a couple sprinkles, then not a single drop until Halloween night. Did I forget to mention that September and October were on the warm side? The grains came up late, and until we got that 10/31 rain, were very thin and not terribly vigorous. Because of the extended dry spell, a low, prostate weed got well established. The plot is now very thick and green; however, 75% of the plot is nice, solid wheat, while the remaining 25% is, for all practical purposes, solid and healthy weeds; I'm talking pure, monoculture-class weed, with nary a blade of wheat. And I'll tell ya', with this January thaw, the deer have been on my wheat like ugly on a Waffle House waitress.

My plan was to frostseed clover (this time, my proprietary mix of medium red, alsike, a couple leftover pounds of alfagraze, and endura kura (including the magic "superbug" inoculant)) all across this plot, then to mow down the wheat once it develops seed heads(I should point out that I've batted a thousand with this method in the past).

I'm wondering if I should even bother spreading clover seed on the weedy portion, or simply let it go and spray it later with glyphosate. Or just let the weedy part go, period, to give the clover plot a more distinctive shape. Or just spray the whole plot, period, and start over with something next fall.

FWIW, this plot has the 2nd best soil of my seven food plots; heavy loam, phosphorus mid-40's, and potassium 200, pH 6.6. In the past, it's grown superb legumes.

Suggestions please!:D

[FREEPOP]

I think I'd frost seed but am curious to see the responses to this also FL. I have a half acre that I seeded Labor day with wheat and ladino clover. There are quite a few weeds in it but if they are the ones that I think they are, they can't handle being mowed. They are a tall weed (I believe broad leaf) when matured with a polygonal (flat sided) stalk and has seeds about the size of clover all over it. I was disapointed at the amount of weeds but hope after I mow the wheat, they will be gone too.

Additionally I have a half acre that was an estabished plot. I fertilized fairly heavy when the called for rain for several days late in August. Both the plot and I got burned on that one :smile-mad I had sprayed that in the spring for grass and had good results. Now I have mostly nothing there. My question, re-seed or disc lightly and re-seed.

Didn't mean to hi-jack your post FL, but it is similar and I want to catch Ed's attention too ;)

[NorthJeff]

Do you need the clover as a summer food source this year? I like to at least start weed-free...would kind of concern me with good weed growth on 25% of the plot already, especially in good soil.

Up here on poor soils I'd take the opportunity to spray once, plant buckwheat for the summer, and then spray a 2nd time if weeds were present before a late summer/fall planting of a premium blend including a perennial base and cool season annual...possibly wheat/oats/clover, or a brassica/clover blend if your deer herd wasn't so stinken spoiled and picky!.:) I like including oats in the blend with a rate of at least 50% so you can count on them dying during the winter and not offering any competition to the establishment of the clover in the spring.

I have 1 to maybe 2 potential weed problem fields that have not had multiple sprayings in a year for several years now, and might take the spring through summer months to get two sprayings in, with a buckwheat planting in-between. Might even stubbornly try to get a brassica crop into Dec. for the first time...with a base of clover, hasn't happened yet, but maybe some year!

For me personally though, I really like to use frost-seeding only to fill-in areas with a field of late summer established perennial/annual combo plantings.

[Ed Spin04]

FL you have some impressive soil conditions and normally it influences my decision in the technique of planting.

You have options, wait for the wheat and weeds to grow 10-5 inches respectivly, then spray with RR. The timeing in your area should be around mid May then broadcast your perennial seed mix as noted and cultipack twice slowly, all on the same day. The sprayed, dead wheat and weeds will help the young delicate seedlings with their shade. FL with your fine soil, expect good results.

I do not know the weed seed picture in your plot, and hopefully most or all emerge to be killed with the above spraying, (thus the reason to wait for mid May before spraying). FL if your weed seed is not only laying on the soil surface but also mixed into the soil along with a variety of weed seed types, which have a differant emergence date, the picture now changes and N Jeff is on the Mark. Get rid of the compeition when planting plots, especially perennials.

FL, you mention Endura Kura clover and both of us know that this stuff cannot stand competition, especially aggresive grass and weeds early in its growth. You can plant other perennials with it and some grass types, but these are plants that start out slow along with the Endura Kura and doesn't stress the Kura, its the perennial weeds and grasses already established, which didn't get killed that can actually kill the young Kura before it gets established. Kura needs at least 6-8 weeks of little to no competition to get established.

FL to play it safe you should seriously think about spraying twice, tilling twice and seeding kura in ealrly August to prevent buying the jumbo size of asprin.

FL, I know that you already had the answer, for you are one of the many that post here, whose knowledge I'm impressed with. We all appreciate your questions for all to learn.

[NorthJeff]

FL,

You know, I was thinking of this last night and that would really worry me with the weeds. This would be an excellant opportunity for you to not only get a great kill on your weeds with multiple sprayings as needed throughout the warm months, but to be left with an "empty canvas" of exposed soil by the end of the summer. You can cut grooves with a light discing or cultipacker at that time, and broadcast a clover blend with NO TILLING...maybe even experiment with some peas as well. I saw Luv2's peas germinating real well laying right on top of the soil, wonder if it would be a good mix?

Of course, all this is for not if you get as little rain as last year! Hopefully the skies will open and you'll be blessed with much more moisture than last year...that was a real shame!

[farmlegend]

...to throw out there. As soon as the weather gets warm in May, and the green stuff is growing and vigorous as all get out, spray the glyphosate on the whole plot. Then, when the plot becomes utterly toasted (~ 3 weeks later), set fire to the plot and burn the whole thing ; it could be done fairly safely, since the perimeter is generally dark green cool-season grasses and weeds at that time of year). Same day, broadcast seed across the bare, charred soil, and go over it 2-3 times, slowly, with the 12ft. Brillion Beast(just my luck, the perrenial storage location for the packer happens to be right next to this plot!).

Assuming some rain follows, the biggest competion likely would be from invading cool-season grasses. When they show up, I could hit the plot with a dose of Poast.

Fellas, thanks for the suggestions.

[FREEPOP]

Note to self: FL is going to be needing rain in late May, so get plots established by then or wait till fall ;) :lol:

[NorthJeff]

FL....start the rain dancing again!...better do a better dance than last year;) The good thing is...if it doesn't work, you can plant in late summer.

[farmlegend]

Note to self: FL is going to be needing rain in late May, so get plots established by then or wait till fall ;) :lol:

Sounds like a plan!:evil:

I sure hope we don't get a growing season like 2005 again anytime soon. We must have had about 30 inches of forecasted precipitation that never occurred.

[FREEPOP]

I sure hope we don't get a growing season like 2005 again anytime soon. We must have had about 30 inches of forecasted precipitation that never occurred.

I was thinking that last week and prior when we got all that rain. Why didn't they order it earlier :confused:
I got lucky this fall and it looks as though my wheat and clover came up okay even though it has a lot of clay. Time will tell.
Usually it all evens out at the end of the year but it really bites when you have $$ and a lot of time riding on it. Now I understand why farmers can be a little gruff at times.