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View Full Version : A great opportunity to listen to the DNR!




NorthJeff
01-11-2006, 09:38 AM
I hope many of you will take the time to visit the DNR meetings across the state to listen to what the DNR has to say....even call and talk to your local biologist. Like most things in life...listening first, and then raising questions or concerns in a professional manner is a great approach. After speaking around the U.P. at least a dozen times in the past 18 months, being on the radio, quoted in newspapers I have first hand knowledge how some will come to a meeting with a pre-conceived agenda and not listen to one word that is said..not one. In fact, it get's to the point that most in the room will actually look around at some of those asking questions and some have actually said..."weren't you in the same room the past 45 minutes?" Thankfully those folks are few and far between, but they can really drag down both the content and the level of the discussion.

In the past several weeks, and several years I've talked to Bob Depker on the phone, John Madigan, former NRC commisioner Nancy Douglas, and Terry Menzie in the past as well, written letters, emails, and if you listen you will probably not agree with everything they say, but you will begin to understand that they are real people, with real problems, and honestly attempt to come up with solutions relative to herd health, herd quality, habitat health, hunter pressure, public pressure, and unfortunately political pressures.

Interestingly enough, when deer numbers are high, complaints are low(whether there are real problems or not!), and when deer numbers are low complaints are high(even though there maybe the same problems when deer numbers are high..other than deer numbers). One of the biggest concerns on everyones mind should be the winter severity, winter loss, and winter habitat. Just something to think about. In the 15 year period ending in 2004, hunters harvested 1.1 million deer. During the same period, winter severity claimed 900,000. Now, if we averaged 350 wolves a year for the past 15 years, that would equate to about 100,000 consumed deer...many of which were more the result of winter loss, so wolves themselves actually would kill many less....that 100,000 number would be just what they eat. Anyways, some of our northern portions of the U.P. have never had doe permits, yet are the most effected by the 900,000 loss over the past 15 years. Sometimes we yell and scream about a few hundred doe permits over a 2500 square mile DMU unit..yet seem to ignore the 50,000 deer that die in the average winter in the U.P....and up to as many as 200,000 in one year just in the last 10 years...even 110,000 in the winter of 2000-2001! On top of that, there are guys that will heartely complain about the lack of deer, yet are happy and eager to go into a deer yard in Dec. and shoot a mature doe.

Just attempting to offer perspective. I do not like everything the DNR does, but I support them because you will get absolutely no where by being a loud angry voice and you have to recognize they have great minds that accomplish a very tough task and are generally very good people. In fact I would say we have some of the best DNR staff right here in the U.P...and they have the toughest task in the state. We have to work together. I'd like to see us kill more deer in the U.P., but in order to do that we need to improve the winter habitat...summer habitat supports in many cases several times more than our deer herd needs, so it's not even something to worry about until we address the winter loss and loss of winter habitat either to cutting, age, or replacement. I'd also like to improve the buck age structure and we won't do that by further limiting hunters by license, unless we go to buck quotas, but instead by keeping hunters from shooting young bucks and increasing the quality of the winter habitat. As far as predators go, the most comprehensive study out there shows that hunting coyotes can actually increase predator numbers due to litter increases of several times unless the efforts are aggressive and consistant....might be very true, might be partially true...but it's something to consider greatly and mirrors my own experiences as well in that I have never shot a yote, have yotes on my property every single night, but get double the fawn recruitment for the area.

Buy hey, whatever your ideas, whatever your feelings about the DNR, I hope they are based on something else other than lunch room rant sessions and coffee shop complaints. Learn on your own, listen to what they have to say, take notes, even come to the meetings with notes, absorb, and ask questions. But this a great opportunity to learn, and if we go into these meetings with an open mind with an eagerness to learn I would be willing to bet you will come away with much more than you may suspect.

Again, a loud angry, even large voice will get nowhere...but listening, reason, education and professional dialouge can accomplish great things in a very positive and constructive manner. If you do not regularily communicate with wildlife officials...this is a great opportunity to do so, but communication goes both ways.




Ed Spin04
01-11-2006, 11:23 AM
Well thought out post North Jeff, here you and I are absolutly on the same page.

Jeff, does your post indicate that you will address the meeting with your informed opinons.

NorthJeff
01-11-2006, 01:18 PM
I still have not fully closed the door on going...but I have a friend that is a part of our SDM branch that is making a formal statement based on a lengthy conversation he had with John Ozoga. Nothing more I can say from that end.

But, the "peaceful protest" is exactly why I may not end up going and I was disappointed in seeing it take place because I think it has the potential to detract from the message...whether you agree with the message or not. I've been in numerous meetings up here were 1 or 2 angry, loud, unprofessional, voices dominate the entire crowd and listen to no reason. Talks of a protest, pickets, no matter how "peaceful", really turn me off. On the otherhand, they sometimes attract and promote the exact type of settings I try to avoid. Former SDM president Bud Norman already attended the meeting in Esc, made a statement, and my friend will be in Marquette to do the same so we've covered it pretty well. I also spent 1/2 a day in a radio station a couple weeks ago being interviewed for two shows that aired the end of Dec. on two weekends where we discussed almost every U.P. deer issue there is, including a lot on winter habitat. The show reached 1000's and between speaking to the Marquette Rotary a few weeks ago that included about 75 individuals from the area, the radio program, a dozen public and private meetings the past 18 months that included newspaper, magazine, radio, and T.V., as well as talking to the area wildlife professionals often for the past several years...not to mention setting up and attending meetings with wildlife officials and John Ozoga..even at Ozogas house.....I can't say I'm fully burned out yet, but I certainly spend my time as effeciently as possible while attempting to get the most "bang for my buck". Of course, this is outside of the time of work, family, 3 kids 5 and under, my own property to manage, being president of the SDM branch, board meetings, this site, running my 7 beagles, family vacations, my lease in WI, and hunting in 3-4 states for a combined 5 seasons or more each year. Anything that might be just a bunch of yelling and complaining...I try to avoid, whether it be potential customers or public meetings..don't need it even when there is money involved. Call it "mental health preventative medicine".:)

UP Ed
01-12-2006, 10:23 AM
Hi Jeff,

Your post is titled "A great opportunity to listen to the DNR". Not only do we get to listen, we get to speak. When we listen we learn when we speak we teach. It is so very important for you and other folks to attend these meetings. You have a great depth of knowledge, and although you may feel frustration at these meetings, I guarantee you there are folks that listen to what you have to say and come away with new perspectives and better understanding of Deer management.

My education into deer management began when a friend of mine gave be a copy of Ed Spin's first food plot book. Read it, found it very interesting, learned about things I new very little about. From that book I investigated the QDMA and became a member. Their magazine is one of the best out there and I again learned more with each issue. I meet with you and Bud Norman and a few others that evening in Houghton, I learned. One day I bought a book from this not to bad of a whitetail photographer named Charlie Alsheimer, "Quality Deer Management; the Basics and Beyond. Again I learned more about this thing called QDM. I had the opportunity to meet and listen to a presentation by Charlie. I would have gladly paid for the seminar but Charlie donated his time. Again I learned. Had an opportunity to attend a food plot day at a guys place in Whetmore :), again I learned. At that same food plot day there was this farmer there that has forgotten more about food plots than I know, again I learned.

I have been listening and learning, when I have the chance I speak and teach the best I can with what I have learned.

Will you change the deer management in Michigan in one meeting...No. But the knowledge and experience you bring to the table makes a BIG difference.

Keep the faith Brother!

-Ed

ps. Tonights DNR meeting is at the Best Western Lakeside Inn on US41 in Baraga.

Lew
01-12-2006, 10:52 AM
Jeff, I totally agree. Lew

Ansel
01-12-2006, 11:23 AM
Jeff, I do hope you plan on attending. However, If you don't I fully understand why you wouldn't. Keep your priorities in line, you have a young family and don't spread yourself to thin.

I will be finilizing my notes this weekend, maybe we can chat between now and then. I'm even have tempted to call Jon and and set up a visit with him.

NorthJeff
01-12-2006, 03:20 PM
The 65 mile drive one-way doesn't help much either!

Ed, How did your plots and property work out this year?

Ansel, I'll let you know if I can make it.

Ferg
01-12-2006, 03:23 PM
The 65 mile drive one-way doesn't help much either!

Ed, How did your plots and property work out this year?

Ansel, I'll let you know if I can make it.

Ed, How did your plots and property work out this year?

Please start a new thread for this part - thanks -

ferg....

NorthJeff
01-12-2006, 03:58 PM
Ferg...it's all in the same forum now.....why not the same thread? :D

I was waiting for someone to say something! :) Shoot, might even be easier to just have one long, unending thread on habitat management topics, as well as deer managment topics. ;)

Ferg
01-12-2006, 04:01 PM
Ferg...it's all in the same forum now.....why not the same thread? :D

I was waiting for someone to say something! :)

For threads to be effectively searched to obtain information requires that the thread stay ON TOPIC - same forum - different thread for ease of data recall.

:)

thanks

ferg....

Trophy Specialist
01-12-2006, 10:58 PM
running my 7 beagles
Owing 7 beagles must make all the other things in your life seem pretty easy. I have owned beagles before. You must be a glutton for punishment.:lol:

I'd recomend going to the meeting and speaking, writing emails to the DNR, telling your friends and relatives to write emails and any other way you can get your message across. It might be a long shot, but if enough people reiterate the same message to the powers that be in the DNR, then who knows, they just might listen.

Whit1
01-13-2006, 03:45 PM
Jeff,
What Ferg/Jim is saying about keeping the threads on track is right on the money. We've been doing this for a couple of years now, especially during the past year and have found it to be a very effective way to moderate the forums, sharing and dissemintating information.

NorthJeff
01-13-2006, 04:06 PM
No, I fully understand you guys doing what you do...no complaints! Was wondering who would say something first..you or Ferg!:D Just having a little fun in light of including the various topics in one forum...thought maybe it was time to just have one, long, continuous undending thread :) :) :)

Ferg was pretty quick though!!

BTW..this is way off topic!;)

Whit1
01-13-2006, 04:08 PM
Ferg was pretty quick though!!


That's only cuz I'm recovering from prostate surgery and Ferg can move quicker than me and sit longer than me............:lol:

Yup! This is also off topic!!

NorthJeff
01-13-2006, 04:11 PM
In all seriousness, everything O.K. with the surgery and health?