Bedding Area ????

[tratt]

For all the experts out there I have a question regarding size/ number of bedding areas for a given property.

We have been doing habitat improvement for about 5 years now and have seen an increase in deer - quite a few 1.5 old bucks but not many 2.5 year old bucks. We have added five food plots and a couple bedding areas but am not sure if the bedding areas are big enough to hold the bigger deer. I added it up today and we have 7 bedding areas on 100 acres ranging in size from 1 to 4 acres for a total of 18 acres. Bedding area would be described as thick and nasty with no human intrusion during hunting season. We have other areas that are fairly thick but not what I would call bedding areas.

I don't think 18 acres of bedding cover is enough but don't know if I should extend the ones I have or make new ones. I would like to get to a total of 30 acres of great bedding cover.

I would add more but I have a four year crawling on my back !!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks is advance

[mike hartges]

You may have enough bedding areas. Without seeing your land, it's hard to say why you don't have older age bucks bedding there. Is there plenty of cover between the bedding areas and the food plots? I always create some lead in cover so the deer are never completely exposed till they reach the food plots. My food plots have lots of cover around them. Do you allow human scent to blow into the bedding areas? How many hunters do you have on the property? Do you hunt the property heavily prior to late October? Older bucks likely won't tolerate much pressure near their bedding areas. Is there a water source nearby? Oftentimes deer like to get a drink during the day. We've put in several small ponds which the deer can use throughout the day. We also have creeks in the wooded areas so the deer can drink without exposing themselves. On smaller properties, details are critical if you want to manage for older age deer. Good luck.

[NorthJeff]

Most of the time it isn't how may acres you intend to be sanctuary areas, but how you manage your entire property, and that starts well outside your core bedding areas. Property noise, human traffic, unnatural sounds, ATV's, summer traffic, human scent..either blowing into core areas or carelessly left on the property all add up to ruin your property before the serious hunting in late Oct/early Nov. even begins. Most property owners do not protect the entegrity of their properties, even if their core bedding areas are "left alone".

Like Mike said, it's all in the details. I try to make it through the season without the deer knowing they are being hunted. That may seem impossible,and it is...but that's the mentality you have to go at this with. Multiple access routes, and access routes that completely avoid your core areas are essential, but if the "jig is up" on the rest of the property, it probably is in your core mature buck areas as well.

[tratt]

Mike/Jeff -Thanks for the replies.

little more info-

My brother and I are the only two that bowhunt the property and don't hunt very hard until the first week of November. Four of us rifle hunt but only for the first couple days and then its just two of us for the remainder of the season.

We have neigbors close to us that live/hunt on their property. With neigbors come alot of noise - kids playing, four wheelers, gun shots, chain saws, etc. Before buying this property we always hunted up north and the first couple of days bowhunting this property I had a hard time getting used to all the unnatural sounds. I did not think a deer in its right mind would hang out in our woods. But we do see deer about every night and they don't seemed to be alarmed by all noise. You would think even the older bucks would be use to all of this.

Jeff with you located in the UP you probably don't have all this noise/disturbance, but Mike located in southern part you probably have close to the same conditions I do.

Mike - you do bring up a good point about the watering hole. We have two seasonal creeks that dry up about July and don't hold water until October. The neigbor across the street has a large pond. I thought that should be good enough - but maybe not.

Within a mile radius of our property every year a least two to three very nice bucks are harvested. We have done alot of work to improve our habitat but just can't seem to put the puzzle together. :confused: Have even thought about selling to look for greener pastures but with all the work we have done it is hard to get rid of it.

Sorry for rambling on - but all I read every where is "If you build it they will come". We have deer come but not any older ones.:lol:

thanks again for your input

[TheNatural]

tratt it sounds like your dedicated and put in hard work just be patient and in the right place at the right time and it will happen.
another thing is that old deer get old for a reason and maybe all the noise and ruckess next door might push your deer to be more nocturnal or hide alot harder. i no pro but you might if you already havent is to put out some trail cams and see what is going on during the night on your property. i'd try early in the season so not to desturb your hunting.
i might be dead wrong or might just be worth a shot. good luck, i wish i had land like that.

[mike hartges]

Tratt, I think patience is important when it comes to reaping the benefits of your habitat work. 5 years after we started habitat work, we saw some more deer but not many older deer. Now it's been 12 years since we began our habitat work. Much of our work included planting 15,000 trees and shrubs in former row crop areas. We made plenty of mistakes. Much of the habitat improvement information that is available today was not in print when we started. If you provide food, water, cover and SAFETY you will have older bucks use your land. You will probably never have large numbers of big bucks living on your land all year long but you can certainly have them visit your land during hunting season. You spoke about noise. Your deer will become tolerant of what is normal for your area. We have a lake across the road from our 60 acres. There are duck and goose hunters blasting away while I'm hunting less than 1/4 mile away. I shot a buck this year within 1/2 hour of gunshots going off across the road. There are gunshots in my area every day in the fall. I do some other things that would raise more than a few eyebrows from my fellow hunters. In early November, I take my tractor into the woods during the day and rake my main trail for about 100 yards. I also take my tractor into the woods in July and mow several trails immediately adjacent to a safe area. In November, I don't get quite so close to the safe area with the tractor. I also take my 4 wheeler into the woods in November(after dark when the deer have left the bedding areas) and use my leaf blower to clear all the leaves off the trails. Those same trails were sprayed with Roundup in July.so there is minimal vegetation growing on them. Also, I ride my Craftsman lawn tractor on my main trails(2 tracks) during early November. The deer are used to me being on that trail all year long and I never bother them. Sometimes they stand there and watch me drive by from a distance of 20 yards. They don't seem to equate a human on a tractor or lawn tractor to a person walking down the trail. To me this is extremely important! When I'm doing this work in early November, I take a scent free shower and wear clothes that have been washed in baking soda or hunters soap. I want to minimize human scent. It's also extremely important to keep trespassers off your land. We put up1000 feet of farm fence along the road and planted rows of trees and shrubs along the road so people can't see onto our property. It's a lot of work but it sure is nice to see results in the fall.

[mike hartges]

Tratt, one more thing. If you're serious about harvesting bigger bucks on your land, I highly recommend hiring Tony LaPratt to come to your property for a day and tell you what work needs to be done. Also you should take his 2 day big buck hunting seminar. Tony makes his living teaching hunters how to harvest bigger bucks. He lives south of Coldwater, Michigan and his phone number is 517-238-4566. He has helped me out a lot. His specialty is hunting for pressured bucks.

[NorthJeff]

Tratt,

Actually, most of my experience is in farmland...including my WI lease for the past 4 years (see my photo gallery), and 11 years of hard hunting in the thumb area by Cass City. Managing those core areas is one of the most important aspects of property management. It's not the deer never hear noises, or smell unatural smells, but they recognize very, very quickly which ones mean danger...basically anything out of the ordinary they do not experience the other 300+ days of the season. You need to be able to slip in and out of your hunting sets without disturbing deer. Every time you sound an alarm, it accumulates throughout the season to greatly deminish your chance of success.

Just for an example, we have a central trail that goes up into our property in WI. There are two sanctuary areas this trail goes by, within a 100-150 yards. Those bucks that bed in those sanctuaries are not used to unatural noises in their areas, at all...ever. The one core area is above the trail about a 100' along the top of a high bench, and the other is about 150 yards away and around a low brushy point behind a wall of rowed pines. The rowed pines is not the core area..but it makes for a great ambush funnel on the outsid of that core area. Also, the brushy bench is not a good ambush site, but the tree line along a 2 acre field adjacent to the bench is. We are not walking through those two core areas, and wouldn't even be leaving any scent in those core areas by using that inner trail...but if we were to walk and make a bunch of noise using that trail...the "jig is up". Those bucks will not tolerate bedding in their core areas listening to noises they do not hear the other 300+ days of the year. Many guys would walk up that 1/2 mile trail thinking it's no problem because their stand sites are another 1/2 mile away, or at the end of a different route from a different direction..but those core areas would be ruined in the first few days of the season if we were careless. Basically, you need to walk into and out of your property during hunting season without the mature bucks knowing you are there. It's tough, but most never do reach their properties potential for holding and harvesting mature bucks.

[mike hartges]

Jeff, I agree that when it's time to hunt you absolutely must slip in and slip out without spooking deer. I know that the work I do on my property in November isn't adversely affecting the hunting. I believe(in my area) there is so much consistent tractor and lawnmower noise that the deer don't get spooked when they hear it. Also, when I'm mowing my trails in November the deer can hear me coming into the area and they hear me leaving the area so they can relax after I leave. Now on the other hand, if I step on a dry leaf and it crunches within earshot of a deer, they are likely to run away from that sound. I believe if you get into a deer's comfort zone without them knowing it, then they see, hear, or smell you, they will be much more alarmed than if they hear you coming and you stay on your normal paths. I do try to see what the deer will tolerate and I feel that what I'm doing is working. My methods may not work for everyone but we now have more deer on our property during hunting season than at any other time of year. I'm convinced that the deer feel comfortable on our land because the surrounding properties are hunted hard from the beginning of bow season thru the late doe season. I still have much to learn and I try to keep an open mind about what may or may not work. I'm having a lot of fun with all aspects of habitat management and deer hunting.

[NorthJeff]

Mike...I'd say you are right on target. Often, it's about understanding and believing in the concept, or "big picture". Most never realize how little it takes to deminish hunting success. I know for me personally most of my mature bucks going back to the early 90's have been shot using the stand for the first time for the year in late October, early Nov., after placing the stand at least July or before. Most were shot in the morning and most were after a walk several times further than just point A to point B..even if there was a much, much shorter trail. Once you get the concept of not only protecting core areas, but the entire property, the rest comes with experience.

I really like your thought of crunching a dry leaf. Could be a cough, velcro from a release, metallic ting on a tree step, especially on small property, that is often all it takes to not only ruin a sit, but a location. On large properties you can get away with more because even if a deer bolts, it has a great chance of staying on the property..but when you have a couple hundred acres or less, you just don't have that luxuary, and it becomes even more critical the smaller you go.

Can you clean you PM?:)