Redefining food plots.

[FixedBlade]

I had posted this thread in the habitat forums because my origional thread had been moved there. I have gotten only positive responces to food plots by the question posed below. I am asking for open dialog of your feelings about food plots, their use and how they have effect the deer heard, deer movement and your hunting success if you hunt near a property owner who has them and you do not.

Lets keep this civil and no personel attacks or condesending comments.

If you look at the DNR web site under food plots and baiting you will find this paragraph. "Food plots, naturally accurring foods, standing agricutrural crops, or food placed as a result of using normal agricultural practices are not considered to be feeding".

Now if you go to the thread "difinition of food plot and argicultural crops" you will see that many think that food plots are not planted as a commodity or for income.

The DNR guidlines lumps food plots with agricultural practices. I think we all know that a planted food plot is not "natural" and we do not look at it as an "agricultural field". Food plots are planted to provide a better source of nurishment for deer and other animals.

So should food plots be placed under the "Feeding" heading in the DNR guidlines?

[Luv2hunteup]

So should food plots be placed under the "Feeding" heading in the DNR guidlines?
I guess I'm not sure of the reasons behind this thread (other than food plot envy) but here's the facts;the DNR still has contracts with many landowners to maintain permanent vegative openings (food plots). I'm one of the states many sportsman that has received cost share monies to make these openings. I was paid to create, lime, fertilize and plant perennial food sources for deer on private land (mine) and maintain these openings for ten years. This program is called the Stewardship Incentive Program or SIP. There are other government programs such as CRP that provides private land owners with money to put in food plots for wildlife, in fact up to 5 acres.

Per my many meetings and talks with my NRCS office in the Soo, this is one of the most successful/cost effective means of improving our states wildlife habitat and animal numbers. The Eastern Chippewa/Mackinac district honored me at their annual meeting with the Stewardship award for all the habitat improvements on my land. Our government officials want more monies to expand the current program but none is available since the down sizing of the current farm bill. When these funds become available I'll make sure that I post it, as I have in the past. Plus I will also request more funding to compensate me for the habitat improvements that I have not been paid for.

If more sportsman took advantage of government sponsored program our states habitat would be in much better shape than it is today. I know my deer hunting has been greatly improved since I got involved with habitat improvements. I went from seeing a deer every few days to being able to shoot a deer any day that I choose. This is in a UP DMU that has been under deer management target goals for years. The question shouldn't be why do you have food plots it should be why don't you.

[luv 2 bowhunt]

Luv2hunteup says:
"The question shouldn't be why do you have food plots it should be why don't you."

If you don't own land you can't have food plots.

Just watch one of the Drury videos or Drury Biologic ads.
They say something to the effect of:
Since we have started using biologic, our deer numbers have increased dramatically, our neighbors are green with envy, because we are pulling all of their deer onto our property.
Food plots have definately made our jobs easier.


This is the reason so many get all hyped up over food plots and baiting.
The food plotters want to eliminate baiting so they can have ALL the deer on their properties.

To answer the topics question:
YES foodplots should be listed as "feeding"
A food plot is planted to attract, lure, or entice deer to the food plotter's property, plain and simple.
It is funny that that is the exact definition of BAIT on page 19 of the 2005 MI hunting and trapping guide.

[Munsterlndr]

To those of you who think that food plots should be regulated under the "feeding" rules, which for all intents and purposes means they would be banned since supplimental feeding is only allowed in several northern tier counties in the UP and only by permit, please tell me how you are going to enforce this ban.

One persons garden is another persons food plot. Are you going to ban people from putting in a garden on their private property? On a practical basis there is no difference between the two. Unless you come up with a way to ban gardening, and I think that is HIGHLY unlikely, the debate over food plots becomes moot.

BTW, I put in food plots and I do not have a problem with people using bait. I do agree with the two gallon limit as reasonable.

[FixedBlade]

I see my post has been sensored by the powers that be. Silence the ones that don't see it my way mantality. My intent was to have this in the whitetails forums to garner others thoughts. It looked as if was working as several terrific posts were made. I now understand the mindset of a few, if something is contriversial or not of my bennifit then we will move it to a forum that no one looks at. This post has nothing to do with habitat creation and maintainance, wich is what the habitat forums are about. This post is about understanding what the general population of hunters thinks about food plots, and why feel the way they do.

Luv2hunt and luz2bowhunt you have great responces. Exactly what this thread is tring to do. They are very enlightning. Thank you.

[answerguy8]

If you don't own land you can't have food plots.



If you don't own land there are lots of things you can't do. You can't put nails in trees to make a blind, you can't leave a blind out all year, you can't plant apple trees, you can't fertilize oak trees, you can't create bedding areas, you can't dig a pond. The list goes on and on, but so what you like done?

[QDMAMAN]

We have a 1800 acre QDM co-op in Eaton County and, as with most co-ops, there are those who choose not to participate in the program, which I am perfectly ok with. Interesting though that the neighbors that choose not to participate in the co-op are the ones that complain the most about the lack of deer sightings on their properties. They, without fail, put up stands along property lines that border co-op participants and stare with disbelief at all the deer that are moving about the foodplots during the fading light of day waiting for the cover of darkness to travers their properties.
I must say that I do sympothise with them because our actions in improving all our habitat along with the creation of food plots has effected their hunting negitively, but the deer are better off because of my efforts and that's my main concern. I can also say that all of my suggestions to those neighbors on how they can improve their properties, and offering to help them, has fallen on deaf ears.
I guess the capper for me was when one neighbor accussed me of trespassing on his property because he wasn't seeing the deer he used to and it had to be do to trespassers chasing them off.:rolleyes: It just couldn't be possible that the deer chose to live where they had what they needed.

Big T

[Ferg]

I see my post has been sensored by the powers that be. Silence the ones that don't see it my way mantality. My intent was to have this in the whitetails forums to garner others thoughts. It looked as if was working as several terrific posts were made. I now understand the mindset of a few, if something is contriversial or not of my bennifit then we will move it to a forum that no one looks at. This post has nothing to do with habitat creation and maintainance, wich is what the habitat forums are about. This post is about understanding what the general population of hunters thinks about food plots, and why feel the way they do.



Nothing sinister FB - just that we knew that ALL the traffic was moving this direction and we just started moving your thread first - trust me - NO ONE here has any reason to 'bury' your thread or any other in a 'slow' forum -

Food plots is in fact habitat manipulation and creation - and how we/others feel about them is part of a management discussion -

Fits right in I think -

Thanks

ferg....

[huntingfool43]

FixedBlade

I for 1 understand what you are saying, I would bet 99 percent of the food plots planted are there as kill plots but as long as the law reads the way it is there is nothing to stop it. What really burns my **** are all the expurts who claim they are doing it for the betterment of all wildlife, not just deer. Well if they outlawed hunting today how many plots would you see come spring. It is sad that they want baiting banned but do the same with food plots and feel there is nothing wrong with it.

[answerguy8]

FixedBlade

I for 1 understand what you are saying, I would bet 99 percent of the food plots planted are there as kill plots but as long as the law reads the way it is there is nothing to stop it. What really burns my **** are all the expurts who claim they are doing it for the betterment of all wildlife, not just deer. Well if they outlawed hunting today how many plots would you see come spring. It is sad that they want baiting banned but do the same with food plots and feel there is nothing wrong with it.

Huge difference between food plots and baiting.

Baiting concentrates deer, causing nose to nose contact, which makes the spreading of disease more likely. Baiting also creates conflicts between hunters on public property because often the person who puts out the bait feels like that area is now 'his' area. Bait is usually gone as soon as the season is over. Food plots remain.

Take my food plots for example: my main stand of corn still has alot of corn in it. I rarely hunted that spot because it wasn't a place I liked to sit (too many houses in view). My rape only started to attract the deer around Christmas, it remains to feed the deer. My oats are still green and are attracting deer. My rye and winter wheat haven't had much attention from the deer but will in the spring. My small clover plot hopefully will perk up in the spring and give the deer good nutrition in the summer. Both of the deer taken on my property this year were taken on trails leading to the food plots.

If they outlawed deer hunting I'm sure I wouldn't put much effort into my food plots, of course how many people would put out bait if deer hunting were outlawed?

[NorthJeff]

There is always a public vs. private land hunter undertone whenever this question arrises. I hunt both, with and without food plots and experience similar success with bucks of similar age and number. You could say that a public land hunter can use bait to compete with a private land owner with food plots, but in my experience the bait is always the winner. So, a private land owner can also use bait. A private land owner will always have an advantage and can also privide wildlife openings with a chainsaw, control the number of hunters, as well as the way the way the property is hunted.

I think the problem in this discussion often is that the "foodplot" envy that Luv2 refers to underscores the falicy that a public land hunter SHOULD EVER have equal hunting opportunities. This isn't a slam on those that can not have private land, but in life there are always those that have more...and always those that want more, no matter what we have. For the privelage of owning land, having food plots, controling hunter numbers, hunting strategically to increase success, cutting wildlife openings, harvesting timber...a land owner often pays over a $100,000, is taxed several thousand a year, and carries typically considerable debt and liability, not to mention an incredible amount of work and dedication to be successful.

Eliminate all food plots and baiting...is that what some want? Well, those with private land can do a heck of a lot with a chainsaw to the tune of a huge advantage. Doesn't matter, there will always be that disperity.

For the record though, those surrounding my land have harvested more bucks because of my efforts. I have benefited, and so have others because of my efforts. The deer have also benefited with at least double the fawn recruitment rates. Also, yearling bucks now sport multi-tined antlers on average so even if surrounding hunters are shooting yearling bucks...they have more of them to shoot, with larger antlers. Although you can not prove it without several hundred deer, several thousand acres, and several years of study that would pass the scrutiny of peer-review...the deer are healthier because of all the property efforts and most likely experience much lower winter mortality rates. Think about it, depending upon when the deer leave for the deer yards and when they return, most years they will have at least 6-8 weeks longer of high quality forage to feed on in the fall, after their summer ranges have been depleted by dormancy and the end of growing cycles. Then, when they return in the spring, they often have 4-6 weeks of quality forage to feed on before spring green-up. Those extra 2-3 months of quality forage during the most critical months before and after winter mortality is key to producing a healthy and productive deer herd that could never be replaced by baiting alone. When you consider wildlife openings and food plots in an entire management program, the deer, the private land hunters, and the surrounding hunters ALL benifit from a property that is intensely managed...a "win-win" for all involved.

Call it what you will...but it's a long way from baiting and anybody that hunts by someone that practices intensive habitat management should be thanking "their lucky stars" should recognize and appreciate the benifits that they and the local deer herd receives as well.

[Pinefarm]

Huntingfool, it's completely the opposite. I'd say 99% do it for more nutrition. Guys that want to hunt over "kill" area's use bait 99%. Now, some do put a bag of carrots in the corner of their plot, but that's still baiting.

Northjeff said...For the record though, those surrounding my land have harvested more bucks because of my efforts. I have benefited, and so have others because of my efforts. The deer have also benefited with at least double the fawn recruitment rates. Also, yearling bucks now sport multi-tined antlers on average so even if surrounding hunters are shooting yearling bucks...they have more of them to shoot, with larger antlers. Although you can not prove it without several hundred deer, several thousand acres, and several years of study that would pass the scrutiny of peer-review...the deer are healthier because of all the property efforts and most likely experience much lower winter mortality rates. Think about it, depending upon when the deer leave for the deer yards and when they return, most years they will have at least 6-8 weeks longer of high quality forage to feed on in the fall, after their summer ranges have been depleted by dormancy and the end of growing cycles. Then, when they return in the spring, they often have 4-6 weeks of quality forage to feed on before spring green-up. Those extra 2-3 months of quality forage during the most critical months before and after winter mortality is key to producing a healthy and productive deer herd that could never be replaced by baiting alone. When you consider wildlife openings and food plots in an entire management program, the deer, the private land hunters, and the surrounding hunters ALL benifit from a property that is intensely managed...a "win-win" for all involved.

This is EXACTLY why this post was moved out of deer hunting and EXACTLY why this forum was created. Or should this post have been put in Habitat, Management, or both?

[NorthJeff]

I'd say it could go in the whitetail deer hunting forum, management, or habitat management...maybe even the "sound-off" area as a public land hunters source of disenfranchment.

Regardless though Bob, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful...why find a couple posts that have could have multiple homes as an example, and continue to ignore the "big picture" of the multitude of posts that are topic specific...habitat management or deer management?:)

There are also many examples of professionals that sepperate deer management and habitat management. For example, a forester may be a great habitat manager, even a farmer...but does that make them a deer manager? And then you have a guy like John Ozoga, a nationally known and respected deer research biologist that is a scientific editor of a national magazine and has around 40 years of deer research experience...yet has never written a food plot article. Sepperate professions, seperate topics. ;)

[FixedBlade]

After reading some of these threads I can see the importance of food plots and the differances between them and baiting. Food plots if planted properly with the right types of forbes can and do bennifit the overall health of the heard. It's placement in the DNR regulations seems to fit well. I hope that those who had a negitive view of food plots will see this thread and use the information here to make a clearer judgement of the bennifits of food plots.

[Splitshot]

I say everyone who plants food plots for deer are preforming a service to all deer hunters. Hunters who do not own land benefit because their chances of killing a nice deer close to the private land is increased. Clearly the deer benefit.
It is different from baiting in some ways and the same in some others. Where you lose me is when you start trying to convince me that you are doing it for altruistic reasons.

[Whit1]

..............for altruistic reasons.

Great word Ray!!!!

[Ed Spin04]

Altruistic, you say? If that word means what I think it means I just may change my name to Al Spin.

Does planting 25 acres of field corn for the last 10 years to help carry deer through the winter and not for a single instance hunt there make me Al Spin?

Does planting 12 acres of forage rape for the same reason make me Al Spin?

Does planting , Aw forget it, just call me Al.

[Ed Spin04]

I'm beginning to like this combination thread. You think with the somewhat neutral content of deer food plots that maybe it may help neutralize the persisitant but uninformed scientific deer management skeptics?

There I did it, thread closed!

[Ferg]

I'm beginning to like this combination thread. You think with the somewhat neutral content of deer food plots that maybe it may help neutralize the persisitant but uninformed scientific deer management skeptics?

There I did it, thread closed!

Thread open.

ferg...

[Whit1]

I'm beginning to like this combination thread. You think with the somewhat neutral content of deer food plots that maybe it may help neutralize the persisitant but uninformed scientific deer management skeptics?


That is one of the key points discussed during the past few months among the Steve and the mods.

This offers another way to unite us.