bait vs foodplots

[hoffie1]

I know all these have been beat to death but the poll on baiting imo is not fair at all.Whit said start a different one on plots so here it is.
For those of you who think baiting should be banned how many use a food plot?What the hell is the difference between a food plot and bait!A food plot is still bringing in deer no matter how you want to slice it.I see in the poll that most (so far)want baiting to continue.I can't believe how pissed some of you get about others baiting.As for me I don't bait but have no problem at all with people that do.

[dtg]

I've been trying to figure that one out myself. So a guy tills some soil and tends a "deer garden" and the other carries some shelled corn out to a spot. I see no difference.

[ENCORE]

I've been trying to figure that one out myself. So a guy tills some soil and tends a "deer garden" and the other carries some shelled corn out to a spot. I see no difference.

I guess that answers that ;)
I'm another that really don't care if someone wants to bait, within reason.

[plugger]

I do the food plot thing rather exstensively and know a little about pasturing live stock and except under rare circustances, UP maybe, There isnt any difference. Its actualy easier to hunt a food plot than a bait pile. If you were to figure out the pounds feed of most food plots supply you would find a couple of pails of corn provide more tdn. It is fun to plant food plots and to hunt them but I beleive anyone who thinks its different than bait is deceiving themselves. Hunting large agricultural fields is different because the deer have so many different options, on a two acre plot you pretty much know where they are going to travel.

[GVDocHoliday]

This is something NorthJeff wrote a few weeks ago:

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This is my experience in the "Great White North". I know that others with baiting experience in the deer abundant regions of the southern farmland area can be entirely different, but then again, most don't rely on bait as the primary method of hunting in those areas, as they do around here.

You hear comments from "time to time" of those claiming food plots are the same as baiting. It only leads me to believe that someone making that claim has never hunted with a food plot, never managed their land with one, maybe doesn't own land, and really has no experience with what they are actually claiming.

1. Food plots need to be a minimum 1/2 acre in size, unless they are considered "harvest plots"-plots hunted over as the deer are on their way to larger, safer, destination plots. Small plots are quickly consumed and offer no further attraction then an empty apple tree. Most have many entrance and exit routes.

Bait piles are a little smaller and concgregat deer to a specific site.

2. Food plots help the wildlife, as well as deer, over an entire year.

Bait piles around my house feed deer for about 2 weeks, on average, with some for 1 week or less, and very few over 3 weeks.

3. Food plots offer up to 40% protein during critical growing periods.

Corn offers 7% protein and can be toxic if consumed in large quantities by starving deer in need of solid forages, solid forages such as the legumes or brassicas that are planted in food plots.

4. Food Plots offer food anytime of the day, most of the year, and do not concentrate deer to a single pile, just before dark, to be quickly consumed. In this way, a food plot is utalized many times a day, for months at a time, greatly increasing the overall health of the animal, including increased lactation rates, improved fawn mortality rates, increased fat reserves, and increased antler growth.

Bait piles, around here, are totally consumed in about 2 weeks, and do nothing more nutritionaly than give the deer a little candy before winter.

5. Due to the fact that food plots are used many times throughout the day, the effects of "overbrowsing" on local habitats is greatly decreased.

Bait piles do not help the local habitat, in fact, they may deplete various areas by conentrating deer to a single spot in the woods.

6. Food plots are more dificult to hunt over, as deer can enter or exit at any time, on many trails, with no need to arrive and quickly consume what's left before the supply is depleted. To be succussful, food plots are best hunted in the trails that lead to and from bedding areas, just like a farm field, acorn crop, or other natural food sources.

Bait piles congregate deer to a specific location, and young, inexperienced deer, particularily yearling bucks, come readily to a bait pile at the end of a 2-track, making them "sitting ducks".

7. It takes a great effort to establish a food plot, with liming, fertalization, and seeding taking a considerable amount of work to complete. A food plot is a year-round maintainance project of "fun-work", with a certain amount of passion and love for the sport needed to carry out the task.

Around here, baiting amounts to stopping by the "Holiday" gas station of the way to checking into a motel or cabin in the area, and then throwing out a bag, or I mean "2 gallons", within walking distance to the ATV, other vehicle, or cabin.

8. Those who have hunted over food plots realize quickly that deer turn nocturnal and it is common to ruin a food plot for daytime use very quickly because deer do not have to visit at any certain time due to the abundace of food.

A bait pile conregates the deer very quickly to a single spot before the "2-gallons" is used up.

9. Most who use food plots are out on their property often througout the entire year, learning woodsmanship, funnels, bedding areas, deer trails, and other traditional hunting methods.

Again, around here baiting is a 2 week thing, with very few hunters in the woods around my property at any other time than the weekend before gun season, and the week of gun season. I find many of the baiters around here, but not all, are "fair-weather hunters", with no real love, passion, or care for the deer or habitat.

10. Food plots do not assist in the spread of disease, such as TB.

Bait piles do.

Also, baiting fosters a reliance on 1 hunting method that has shaped our hunting culture. It's not that baiting is a problem, hunting food plots even, just the RELIANCE of baiting that is the problem. Also, there are always excpetions, but many have reduced their hunting odds by using bait exclusively and over the past couple of decades we have gotten used to mediocrity in our expectations. Many that use bait are just happy to see a buck...while many that don't consistantly take older bucks while using a variety of hunting methods.

Food plots do not shape a hunting culture, in fact, many find that if you have food plots...you shoot your bucks somewhere else. Food plots are no different than ag-land, oak flats, beach ridges, apple orchards or other more "natural" food sources. Deer use them as such and you need to hunt deer as such. Not so with bait piles, when deer are most common to visit during only the last 20 minutes of light.

[jimmyboy]

Just watched a plot show on Outdoor ch last week or so demonstrating how to plan & plant it for max deer kill layout.It was to be used for that purpose exclusively.Simply a baitplot.
I think a major reason many dislike the use of bait is it's nocturnal draw of deer which is easily cured by using spin feeders. In the past,large truckload bait piles were common and this was indeed a problem.It also concentrated deer at that location,drawing them away from surrounding areas. With the legal limit now in effect,not necessarily so IMO. Baiting is a part of the deer hunt culture in MI and will take years to erase,law change or not. NO bait is the law in the cow TB zone,is a joke there,and has created scofflaws of many. Civil disobedience may be a more apt term for it.

[Backwoods-Savage]

It is difficult to misunderstand the post that Northjeff did on the subject. However, it is a moot point. As long as baiting is legal, there will be baiting.

Personally, I feel that at times baiting can be good and it also can be bad. I've baited and not baited. I can hunt either way. It is nice to do some baiting though for the wife and also to let the grandkids or neighbor kids see the deer.

Bad in that it can potentially spread disease much faster. Just as an example, let's consider the rancher who feeds steers. One feeds on the open range or pasture and has very little problem with disease or sickness. The other feeds in feed lots and has to constantly medicate to keep sickness from spreading.

Just my .02

[kdogger]

I think a major reason many dislike the use of bait is it's nocturnal draw of deer

We have food plots on our property....guess what.....same problem! Shine those plots at night and they're loaded up! You will see them loaded up in the evenings during summer, but come Oct 1st, they only use them at night.

[DTrain]

I've been trying to figure that one out myself. So a guy tills some soil and tends a "deer garden" and the other carries some shelled corn out to a spot. I see no difference.

I agree...

[FREEPOP]

For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can believe that 2 gallons of corn now and then can be considered the same as 1-10 acres of food that is available year round.

[east bay ed]

as someone who has planted since the late 80's, i know the reason we changed from baiting to planting was it was more cost affective and we had to only make one trip up in the late summer or early fall. then we could just come up for bow season and hunt. when we baited we would make a trip up every weekend from sept 1 to nov 15.

even now that i live 10 miles from our hunting property we can take one weekend and plant all our fields in the spring, then once or twice a summer we cut our hay field.

i still belive if you scout along with baiting or food plots you will have much more success.

we have had sucess using either method.

[RackSmacker]

The biggest differance of all is, Food plots when done correctly, can greatly improve the health and quality of the deer herd in the area!!! Bait piles can not do this.

[Tom (mich)]

Investment for food plot
Gallon of concentrated Round Up - $200
Rental of plotmaster from Gander - $200
Plot Seed - $50
Lime - around $50
Fertilizer - around $50
Hours investing in herbicide application, tilling, clearing, planting, weeding, mowing, etc. - probably 50-100 hours per season

Investment for baiting
Bag of carrots, corn, beets, apples - around $4.99
Hours invested in delivering your bait - around 10 minutes

PLEASE, do not tell me that they are the same, and the former is not a "deer garden". The benefits to the wildlife population of one over the other should be obvious to the educated hunter, so I won't even go there.

And, for the record, I hunt over both food plots and bait, and I am not a private landowner.

[OSXer]

So, many of the following don't sit well with me and I've chosen to retort. All of the following are based on MY EXPERIENCES, which is SLP based in agricultural areas.

*The following are quotes taken from North Jeff and re-posted. [OSXer]

1. Food plots need to be a minimum 1/2 acre in size, unless they are considered "harvest plots"-plots hunted over as the deer are on their way to larger, safer, destination plots. Small plots are quickly consumed and offer no further attraction then an empty apple tree. Most have many entrance and exit routes.

Bait piles are a little smaller and concgregat deer to a specific site.

Who's to say that someone doesn't create a fall food plot, fence it off, and then open it up during season? That's bridging the two examples above, while still counting as a food plot. :rolleyes:

2. Food plots help the wildlife, as well as deer, over an entire year.

Bait piles around my house feed deer for about 2 weeks, on average, with some for 1 week or less, and very few over 3 weeks.

A gentleman that I spend a lot of time hunting with keeps 2 going for the better part of October, November, and December. He'll continue to put out a little corn past when he isn't even going to be hunting so long as there is some left. The remainder of the year there are still abundant food sources around as well.

3. Food plots offer up to 40% protein during critical growing periods.

Corn offers 7% protein and can be toxic if consumed in large quantities by starving deer in need of solid forages, solid forages such as the legumes or brassicas that are planted in food plots.

There is more than enough good food for deer during these critical periods in the farm country that I hunt that I have no concern about this point.

4. Food Plots offer food anytime of the day, most of the year, and do not concentrate deer to a single pile, just before dark, to be quickly consumed. In this way, a food plot is utalized many times a day, for months at a time, greatly increasing the overall health of the animal, including increased lactation rates, improved fawn mortality rates, increased fat reserves, and increased antler growth.

Bait piles, around here, are totally consumed in about 2 weeks, and do nothing more nutritionaly than give the deer a little candy before winter.

The bait piles around where I hunt, as previously stated, are out there for more than a minimal amount of time. There are also piles on other neighbors properties no doubt, so to say that they are centric around a single pile in my instance is BS. To say that they only come at night is BS in my instance, for trail cameras have shown different. To say that corn does nothing nutritionaly for deer I find extremely hard to beleve and nothing more than a poor shot at corn for being a single grain, where as a food plot might have 3-7 kinds of grasses that get buried under the snow come winter. Also, would growing and leaving standing corn not count as one of these "nutritional" food plots? Is there not a good reason for deering pounding standing corn come winter? Is there a good reason that they don't die off from getting nothing more out of it than a source of "candy". :rolleyes:

Then lets extend it beyond corn to include carrots, apples, ect .... all of that doesn't do anything nutritionally for deer? :rolleyes:

.... And about it all being consumed in 2 weeks time - what do you expect when the limit on the amount you can put out is so low? I'd say 2 days is a more accurate number.

5. Due to the fact that food plots are used many times throughout the day, the effects of "overbrowsing" on local habitats is greatly decreased.

Bait piles do not help the local habitat, in fact, they may deplete various areas by conentrating deer to a single spot in the woods.

Now it sounds like we are starting to make circles already and we are only 1/2 way through the 10 points being presented. :rolleyes:

6. Food plots are more dificult to hunt over, as deer can enter or exit at any time, on many trails, with no need to arrive and quickly consume what's left before the supply is depleted. To be succussful, food plots are best hunted in the trails that lead to and from bedding areas, just like a farm field, acorn crop, or other natural food sources.

Bait piles congregate deer to a specific location, and young, inexperienced deer, particularily yearling bucks, come readily to a bait pile at the end of a 2-track, making them "sitting ducks".

Same thing goes for bait piles since they all don't come in while there is still shooting light. The same strategy of hunting trails and bedding areas where the deer are coming from to bait is just the same as doing it from a food plot. The food plot may make a larger centralized point, but then again, the point of interception for a bait pile is a circular ring, so the farther away the deer are or the later they come, the larger that radius of interception gets. With respect to natural food sources, a bait piles is comparable to that lone, large white oak dropping nuts in the middle of a near-oakless woods. Why does no one complain about that???

Regarding young bucks - the harvest of those is up to the hunter. We are not all after big racks, just tasty venison perhaps. Personally, we pass up these deer where I hunt.

7. It takes a great effort to establish a food plot, with liming, fertalization, and seeding taking a considerable amount of work to complete. A food plot is a year-round maintainance project of "fun-work", with a certain amount of passion and love for the sport needed to carry out the task.

Around here, baiting amounts to stopping by the "Holiday" gas station of the way to checking into a motel or cabin in the area, and then throwing out a bag, or I mean "2 gallons", within walking distance to the ATV, other vehicle, or cabin.

Doesn't Tred Barta makes his own arrows to hunt with - do you do that? I think that Treds method is more deserving and you've taken a cheap route getting those premanufactored arrows. NJ, I've respected posts that I've seen from you in the past, but that point right there is plain ridiculous. Who are you to judge how much time others must put in? Just because you choose to do more, doesn't mean you should be looking down on those who do less.

8. Those who have hunted over food plots realize quickly that deer turn nocturnal and it is common to ruin a food plot for daytime use very quickly because deer do not have to visit at any certain time due to the abundace of food.

A bait pile conregates the deer very quickly to a single spot before the "2-gallons" is used up.

With regards to where I hunt, the bait piles are equivilant to the food plot instance remarked on above. In fact, I had to read it twice because I thought you may have gotten things switched around. :lol:

9. Most who use food plots are out on their property often througout the entire year, learning woodsmanship, funnels, bedding areas, deer trails, and other traditional hunting methods.

Again, around here baiting is a 2 week thing, with very few hunters in the woods around my property at any other time than the weekend before gun season, and the week of gun season. I find many of the baiters around here, but not all, are "fair-weather hunters", with no real love, passion, or care for the deer or habitat.

Entirely invalid points in my instance. :16suspect

10. Food plots do not assist in the spread of disease, such as TB.

Bait piles do.

I bet there are some instances of each that overlap, but that is your best point out of all of all 10 IMO.

Food plots are no different than ag-land, oak flats, beach ridges, apple orchards or other more "natural" food sources. Deer use them as such and you need to hunt deer as such. Not so with bait piles, when deer are most common to visit during only the last 20 minutes of light.

Umm ...
8. Those who have hunted over food plots realize quickly that deer turn nocturnal and it is common to ruin a food plot for daytime use very quickly because deer do not have to visit at any certain time due to the abundace of food.

A bait pile conregates the deer very quickly to a single spot before the "2-gallons" is used up.

Those two make you look a bit hypocritical.

All in all, I don't like hunting over bait either, but I'm not going to strike down on those who do. I'm guessing that many of the points stated above are based on the use of bait by a steriotypical up north weekend hunter, but it'd be great if we could all keep in mind that this is a statewide issue (the use of baiting), so let's not be shooting each other in the foot. The "holier than thou" attitude (with special regards to, but not only, point #7) of the hardcore QDMers is also quite tiresome. I believe your rewards will be directly proportional to how much time you have put in, but I'm not going to stand on a soapbox about it and look down on those who put in less. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Luv2hunteup]

The sole purpose of baiting is to kill a deer but the same can not be said for a food plot.

Here's a few suggestions that may make things more equal between plotters and baiters:

Spread the 2 gallons of bait over several acres of land instead of 100 sq ft.

Make it mandatory for baiters to start baiting at spring green up and continue till the last plot is fully consumed in their DMU.

The protien content of their bait must match the protien content of the average plot in their DMU.

Make it mandatory for the baiter to maintain a minimum amount of bait spread over several acres 24 hour per day 7 days a week.

I know I'm being sarcastic but I would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem. Food plots raise the areas nutritional plane plus aid with increasing deer numbers where baits sole purpose is to reduce deer numbers.

Sorry I don't see this thread going anywhere. At the present time I see no need to change the current rules on baiting anywhere state wide. If there's a reason to legislate food plots maybe someone can list the reasons why.

[RackSmacker]

Food plots provide valuable nutrition in the critical months of Feb. and March when the food supply is at its very least. Bait piles have been long gone by that time.

[krt]

Or, ban the use of baiting and ban hunting within (insert distance) from food plots. Then no one benefits from hunting the deer's belly.

I too am being sarcastic, but it seems most (not all) people who dislaike baiting are those who either have/will have food plots or would simply like to have more woods/deer to themselves.

[DTrain]

It's one thing if you plant a food plot soley to help the deer out during hard months and to make them heathlier, but if you plant a food plot in a certain area to attract deer to that area and then hunt over it, I don't see the difference between that and baiting. You are using something that wasn't naturally there to manipulate deer behaviour.

How many of you plotters NEVER hunt directly over your food plot or on a trail that leads to your plot? If you do isn't your plot a hunting aid like baiting?

[FREEPOP]

It's one thing if you plant a food plot soley to help the deer out during hard months and to make them heathlier, but if you plant a food plot in a certain area to attract deer to that area and then hunt over it, I don't see the difference between that and baiting. You are using something that wasn't naturally there to manipulate deer behaviour.

How many of you plotters NEVER hunt directly over your food plot or on a trail that leads to your plot? If you do isn't your plot a hunting aid like baiting?

I hunt over them but they are there whether I hunt them or not 365 days a year. The reason I plant them is to help animals year round, unlike baiting for a couple of months. Some of the hardest times on a deer can be in March or April with a severe sold snap because there is no food. Only recreational feeding is leagal at this time, which has to be done within 100 yards of a resisdence.

For those that ask the question about corn being leathal to deer, I'll look up some info. It has to do with the enzymes (bacteria) in thier stomach transforms at different times of the year based on browse. Too much corn at the wrong time can be leathal. I baited before, but now have switched to plots, after I educated myself on deer nutrition.

[yooperkenny]

The mods must be watching football or nursing hangovers - the thread NJ's post appeared in was promptly closed ...

I for one welcome the debate because if someone is sincerely asking the question (which BlockBud seemed to originally be doing) then they might benefit by the breadth of ideas you all offer if they read with an open mind.

But face it, whether you're dumping some quick bait or planting a mini farm, the ultimate likely reason you're doing so is to see more deer and put some venison in the freezer. As it stands now they're both legal methods and nobody deserves to get slammed for their choice. Personally, I lean toward food plots if I have the time and $$ because they offer more protein, benefit the herd beyond hunting season, and demonstrate a commitment imho.

[GVDocHoliday]

[QUOTE=How many of you plotters NEVER hunt directly over your food plot or on a trail that leads to your plot? If you do isn't your plot a hunting aid like baiting?[/QUOTE]

I hunt over a half mile from my foodplot. It's only their for nutritional purposes only. I still primarily hunt the ridges and the creek bottoms and look for routes out of river valley as the migrate up the terrace into oak flats. They still don't hit our food plot til well after hours. On occasion we'll get one or two out their during the middle of the day, but for the most part it's all nocturnal activity.

[GVDocHoliday]

The mods must be watching football or nursing hangovers - the thread NJ's post appeared in was promptly closed ...


I agree. NJ's post was the best put together peice of reading I've seen in this debate, and it was only close because the thread starter asked for it to be closed after not being able to debate NJ's arguments because it was a harsh burn. There are no arguments that could actually contend with a single point in NJ's post. We got a great view of that in this thread. None of those arguments carry any merit to discrediting NJ's post.

[marty]

Ok bait in the TB zone is bad cause it spreads TB. It's no secret that baiting is going on since the DNR band it many years ago. A CO this year stated that he believe 90% of the county still baits. If that for sure then every deer in the TB zone should have be positive for TB. But the TB rate has went down. Why is that??

I did not read this entire thread but here's one for you. If I plant a field of sugar beets and turn then over if that a bait pile or a food plot? Also I love to find what food plot is year around that the deer can eat on all year long:yikes:

When the snow and ice is 2 foot deep baiting/feeding IMO would be better for the deer anyway. A lot less work getting to the food supply anyway;) Someone posted something many years ago how much baiting with different thing was acutally good for the deer /protein/ carbs and others things.

I look up the word bait in a websters a which stated " To entice or lure" OK what is a food plot for?? IMHO If you plant a plot and don't hunt over it it's a food plot. Guys who hunt over it are hypocrites when they bash bait piles.

Also if you ever notice deer are social critters and will stay close to each other while they're at a bait pile or a food plot:tdo12:

If this has already been covered sorry as I didn't read the entire thread as I stated earlier. Have a great new year........m

[beer and nuts]

First, the examples of food plots and baiting are what they each do or do not. I think the point is being missed. NJ-copied post is what the food plot does compared to what the bait pile does or doen't on a benefit terms. The fact of the matter is food plots attract deer just like a bait pile does, same result just a different way of going about it. I chuckle when people say food plots benefit other wildlife and say baitpiles do not-I've seen every kind of wildlife at my corn piles from the backyard to my hunting stands. Try putting out corn next to a 2 foot snow covered food plot and tell me which one is benefitting wildlife more, sure the cost of putting out 200 lbs a corn a week is alot BUT thats not the arguement. Another chuckle is food plots benefit deer better than corn piles, yup, thats why the deer are so small in SLP, Iowa(home of the corn for ever and ever), ILL, etc.!?!?!?!

Whether food plots benefit other wildlife or food plots last longer, or whatever the fact is the food plots is there for one main reason, to attract deer. One more thing, the baitpile disease thing is a pretty big gray area, look at the spread of CWD in WI. Most deer disease is caused by too many deer and some of the worst cases come from pasture open field areas.

Food plots are artificial form of attracting wildlife. Whether they benefit wildlife MORE than a baitpile is irrevelent in this arguement.

[FREEPOP]

Food plots are artificial form of attracting wildlife. Whether they benefit wildlife MORE than a baitpile is irrevelent in this arguement.

Irrelevant, sorry I have to disagree. It would be much easier and less costly to go throw out corn a couple of times a year and shoot deer. I like to think I'm giving something back that lasts a lot longer and is better for them. I don't see how that can be irrelevent, if that's why it was put there. I can tell you that the rabbits and pheasants love the clover I plant. Do I shoot them out of a stand near there no, but when the dog and I are near there, there's a good chance for some fun.

Marty, the deer like the winter wheat I have and will dig as far as they have to to get it. The deer also have taken to my brassica and betweeen the two, by the time it's gone, the clover will be nice and green :cool:

[RackSmacker]

The original ? was what is the difference between food plots and bait piles?

I think it is very clear what the differences are ( I'm not going to go over them because they have all pretty much been mentioned already).

The way they are used is irrelevent to the argument. Some guys hunt over plots, some do not. Some guys hunt over bait, some do not. Either way plots take much more work and are far more valuable to the overall health and quality of deer or any other game in the area. To argue otherwise is rediculous.

[Trophy Specialist]

I have many food plots on my properties and do not consider it any different to hunt over or near food plots (or farm crops) than to hunt over near baited sites. In my opinion the ethics are the same. I also do not consider the risk of spreading diseases any different with food plots or legal baiting pracitices. If baiting is ever banned and food plots remain legal, then the move would be pure politics as usual. It always P.....-me-off when I hear one hunter bashing another hunter's choosen, legal hunting method.

[beer and nuts]

Read your post Doc, and I'll give you some thought on NJ copied posts:

1. Congregate deer to a specific site--is the a food plot or baitpile??????

2. Food plots helps wildlife entire year-maybe in SLP, but growing season stops in October around here and I have yet seen a food plot doing any benefit with 1-3 foot of snow on them. And if a particuliar one happens to be a great food plot and most likely the only one in an area-please refer to #1 and explain what the difference then would be? Plus, if holds true in the UP that food plot could cause the deer to migrate too late to their winter grounds.


3. we are assuming all food plot owners have planted to the correct seeds and cultivated correctly and the right time of year to benefit all year long.

4. """Food Plots offer food anytime of the day, most of the year, and do not concentrate deer to a single pile, just before dark, to be quickly consumed. In this way, a food plot is utalized many times a day, for months at a time, greatly increasing the overall health of the animal, including increased lactation rates, improved fawn mortality rates, increased fat reserves, and increased antler growth.""" Most of that is irrevelent to the arguement, its just saying the benefits to a food plot and what it could be.
Bait piles, around here, are totally consumed in about 2 weeks, and do nothing more nutritionaly than give the deer a little candy before winter. Again, he puts the 2 week feeding frenzy before winter as a bad thing!? Or is it the fact this period might take away the deer from ones land during gun season!?!?

5. ""Due to the fact that food plots are used many times throughout the day, the effects of "overbrowsing" on local habitats is greatly decreased."" Please refer to #1, if it attracts deer whether a baitpile or food plot to an area your doing the same thing. OR maybe if one fills up on beets they are less likely to feed on the nature browse!!!!

Bait piles do not help the local habitat, in fact, they may deplete various areas by conentrating deer to a single spot in the woods. Oh come on, thats the point of baiting for only 2 weeks, right!?!? Again, I think we are getting back to the pulling deer away from land thinking!!

6. ""Food plots are more dificult to hunt over, as deer can enter or exit at any time, on many trails, with no need to arrive and quickly consume what's left before the supply is depleted. To be succussful, food plots are best hunted in the trails that lead to and from bedding areas, just like a farm field, acorn crop, or other natural food sources."" Irrevelent in the arguement.

Bait piles congregate deer to a specific location, and young, inexperienced deer, particularily yearling bucks, come readily to a bait pile at the end of a 2-track, making them "sitting ducks". Young bucks do not come readily to a food plot??! Again, hinting toward a AR's arguement and irrevelent to the arguement.

7. It takes a great effort to establish a food plot, with liming, fertalization, and seeding taking a considerable amount of work to complete. A food plot is a year-round maintainance project of "fun-work", with a certain amount of passion and love for the sport needed to carry out the task. No one is argueing that, really has nothing to do with the arguement.

Around here, baiting amounts to stopping by the "Holiday" gas station of the way to checking into a motel or cabin in the area, and then throwing out a bag, or I mean "2 gallons", within walking distance to the ATV, other vehicle, or cabin. Mmmmm, sounds like a social arguement and a personal opinion.

8. Those who have hunted over food plots realize quickly that deer turn nocturnal and it is common to ruin a food plot for daytime use very quickly because deer do not have to visit at any certain time due to the abundace of food.

A bait pile conregates the deer very quickly to a single spot before the "2-gallons" is used up.

9. Most who use food plots are out on their property often througout the entire year, learning woodsmanship, funnels, bedding areas, deer trails, and other traditional hunting methods.

Again, around here baiting is a 2 week thing, with very few hunters in the woods around my property at any other time than the weekend before gun season, and the week of gun season. I find many of the baiters around here, but not all, are "fair-weather hunters", with no real love, passion, or care for the deer or habitat. And this has what to do with the arguement?!

10. Food plots do not assist in the spread of disease, such as TB.

Bait piles do. Really? Its been proven food plots do not spread disease. Was it ever really proven bait piles spread TB or was it the excess number of deer in certain areas and nose to nose contact. Very bold statement in a big gray area.

I read between the lines now with most statements, its all about personal opinion half the time disguised as fact!

[hoffie1]

Racksmacker
You are missing my point.No matter how you or anyone else spins it,it is still bringing in deer.As someone else said MOST who hunt near foodplots but bitch about 2 gallons of bait are hypocrites.

[marty]

Marty, the deer like the winter wheat I have and will dig as far as they have to to get it. The deer also have taken to my brassica and betweeen the two, by the time it's gone, the clover will be nice and green :cool:

Wouldn't the deer burn more energy digging through a food plot in a couple feet of snow than to have say a spin-feeder that throws out corn or deer pellets??

I think that most food plots are pretty well gone by the time winter has struck good. I don't have a gillzion acre food plots so mine are pretty gone up by winters grip on the ground. Take a few feet of snow and ice and drop a little corn in your food plot and see what goes first;) ..........m

[FREEPOP]

Marty, we don't get a few feet of ice and it's been a long long time since we've had a couple feet of snow. They just scratch a little, like they've been doing for the acorns. I can't throw corn out now, that'd be illegal :Modified_

[Ferg]

Here is the bottom line:

What is the Difference Between Baiting and Feeding?

"Baiting" is defined as putting out food materials for deer to attract, lure, or entice them as an aid in hunting. A person baiting deer must comply with the baiting regulations.

“Feeding” is defined as individuals placing food materials out that attract deer or elk for any reason other than baiting. Feeding for recreational viewing purposes must follow regulations for recreational viewing. Supplemental feeding of deer is prohibited with the exception of eight Upper Peninsula counties. For specific regulations, visit the supplemental feeding page.

Food plots, naturally occurring foods, standing agricultural crops, or food that is in place as part of normal farming practices are not considered baiting or feeding.


That is the offical DNR web site says - and just like tag limits and every other thing, until the 'law' is changed - Food Plots ARE NOT Baiting. Nor Feeding for that matter :)

ferg....
And I'm not 'hungover' this just got posted in a forum that I have no control :yikes: :lol: :lol: :lol:


ferg....

[RackSmacker]

Racksmacker
You are missing my point.No matter how you or anyone else spins it,it is still bringing in deer.As someone else said MOST who hunt near foodplots but bitch about 2 gallons of bait are hypocrites.

I'm not missing the point. I never said I had any problem with people who bait. All I was stating were the differences between the two. I agree that alot of people that use food plots use them strictly to bring in deer to kill. Like I said before even if they are being used to accomplish the same thing they can not be considered the same, the plots are still more beneficial to the animals. My statements have nothing to do with which one is more ethical or any of that BS. My dad hunts over bait, I don't give him any crap for it. I hunt the same area as he does, and I see far more bucks than he does in less than half the # of hunts.

If food plots were the same as bait piles, why would anyone waiste there time, effort and $$$ on food plots?

[Munsterlndr]

I have many food plots on my properties and do not consider it any different to hunt over or near food plots (or farm crops) than to hunt over near baited sites. In my opinion the ethics are the same. I also do not consider the risk of spreading diseases any different with food plots or legal baiting pracitices. If baiting is ever banned and food plots remain legal, then the move would be pure politics as usual. It always P.....-me-off when I hear one hunter bashing another hunter's choosen, legal hunting method.
:yeahthat:
I have to agree 100% with TS on this one. I get really tired of hunters trying to paint thier personal choice as to method of hunting as the moral high ground.

I have used bait and plant food plots. I don't consider either more moral or ethical than the other. For me they serve a different purpose. I use bait to congregate deer in a specific spot for my trail cam. I like taking pictures of deer. I would put the cam in my food plots but it is too open and they would likely get ripped off. I don't hunt much over bait any more but I have no problem with people that do. The condescending attitude I see from some that it is not "sporting" or is not "real hunting" is just so much BS.

I plant food plots to suppliment the available forage and hopefully improve the health of the herd on my property. It also gives the deer less of a reason to leave my property. I also enjoy the time and effort I put in working on them. Purely selfish reasons, and I'd be the first to admit it. Nothing moral or ethical about it.

A couple other points to counter some of the pro-food plot blather that I've seen.

Concerning the potential spread of diasease, this is a pretty weak argument, IMHO. With a two gallon limit the bait gets consumed pretty quickly. With shelled corn that is spread over the required distance you are going to get very little nose to nose contact. One of the food plots that I planted this year was purple top turnips. The deer dig them up and nibble on them but rarely will one deer consume a whole turnip. Usually they are consumed by multiple deer. How is a turnip from a food plot less likely to spread disease than one that is part of a bait pile? Also, when the turnips are gone they are gone for the year. So not all food plots provide year round forage. A lot of them are planted solely to provide food during the fall hunting season and once they are consumed they are done for the year, just like a bait pile.

As far as bait piles not benefiting other wildlife, I would guess that the majority of the corn and apples I put out for my trail cam is consumed by porkies, raccoons, squirrels (especially one particularily obnoxious little red squirrel) rather than by deer. I've have had skunks, grouse and turkeys also visit my bait pile. I put out bait generally from the begining of Oct. to the start of firearms season. There is no question that other animals utilize and benefit from this, at least judging by how fat the raccoons and porkies are in this picture.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/521/bunch.jpg

I am very disappointed in how many non-issues are being used to divide and factionalize the hunting community these days. I often think we are our own worst enemy. :rolleyes:

[William H Bonney]

Racksmacker
You are missing my point.No matter how you or anyone else spins it,it is still bringing in deer.As someone else said MOST who hunt near foodplots but bitch about 2 gallons of bait are hypocrites.
EXACTLY!!!
If a food-plotter planted a plot then hunted in a different county, then I might buy their rationale. Sugar coat it all you want.

[FREEPOP]

I don't care if anyone baits, but don't try and convince me it's the same as food plots. A farmer's combine broke down, now his corn field is a plot and not a crop. Or only because you capatalize on the food source it's a plot? What about hunting mast? Shouldn't give this out but you can enhance mast with food spikes near trees. Plotting again?

Ferg has it right, botom line, it is defined legally .......and they are the final word.

[FixedBlade]

I love that trail cam pic.

[beer and nuts]

Most farmers do feel their corn fields are deer plots!:)

I really do not care if people do the food plot thing, I will say I have seen alot of plots up here that really seem like wasted clearing with very min. benefit becuase the do not put enough time, effort and money into the them. I think its a fad for a large percentage of landowners.

The guys that put the $$ and effort and time into it and are dedicated year in year out, do see substantial rewards but I would bet they are a very small minority.

[Backwoods-Savage]

Investment for food plot
Gallon of concentrated Round Up - $200
Rental of plotmaster from Gander - $200
Plot Seed - $50
Lime - around $50
Fertilizer - around $50
Hours investing in herbicide application, tilling, clearing, planting, weeding, mowing, etc. - probably 50-100 hours per season

Investment for baiting
Bag of carrots, corn, beets, apples - around $4.99
Hours invested in delivering your bait - around 10 minutes

PLEASE, do not tell me that they are the same, and the former is not a "deer garden". The benefits to the wildlife population of one over the other should be obvious to the educated hunter, so I won't even go there.

And, for the record, I hunt over both food plots and bait, and I am not a private landowner.

Wow! Let me guess. You are not a farmer, right? :lol:

[lostmale]

What I find hard to take is when people claim that baiting or food plots cause deer to turn nocturnal. I have a bean field beside me and I watch the deer all year. You can set your watch on the time you will see most deer come out to feed which around here is 7:00 PM. In Aug and Sep that is early but gee at 7:00 in Oct the dang deer are starting to go nocturnal 7:00 pm in Nov they are now totally nocturnal must be all the bait piles. The reason I would claim for the deer turning noctural has more to do with the influx of hunters and people in the woods like rabbit, woodcock, grouse, turkey, bear, tree rat hunters and so on.By Nov15th there has been alot of activity in the woods and not just from deer hunters to force the deer into moving later. I say bait if you want or plant food plots if you want but leave the choice up to the hunter. Where I hunt I have not seen a problem with bait bags left in the woods the biggest eyesore to me is all the ribbons tied on trees marking trails in out of woods.

[Kaiser Sose]

EXACTLY!!!
If a food-plotter planted a plot then hunted in a different county, then I might buy their rationale. Sugar coat it all you want.

You know, reading all these various post on this food plot issue, I read the post above and thought to myself, gee, that sounds like an incomplete riddle!

So, I'll complete it and then have someone answer it. (you have 10 seconds)

"If a food-plotter planted a peck of plots, and each plot that the food-plotter planted was in a peck of counties, and each county had a peck of plots, how many plots did the food-plotter plant?"

First correct answer wins!


GO!

[luv 2 bowhunt]

Food Plot: Private land owners way of attracting deer to a specific area.

Bait Pile: Also a private land owners way to attract deer to a specific area.

Bait Pile: The public land hunter's only method of attracting deer to a specific area.

[fairfax1]

Let me run this by you:

An apple is round, it is a fruit, you can eat it out of hand, men eat it.
An orange is round, it is a fruit, you can eat it out of hand, men eat it.
Therefore, an apple is an orange.

From such reasoning we get: your acre of clover is the same as my pile of beets.

The above is my observation on some of the posts I've read above. What follows is my opinion.

Baiting is legal but I find it unethical. As I do baiting for turkey, ducks, geese, elk, pheasant, and grouse. Baiting turns our wonderful wild deer into predictable livestock. A sheep shoot. It dumbs-down this amazing pasttime of outwitting whitetails.

It is also my opinion that the vast vast majority of hunters who bait --and harvest a deer off of their bait ---are poaching. I say that with caution, but, I find virtually no one baits under the legal strictures..meaning 2gallons spread out over 100sqft. In my experience, in viewing baitpiles on public and private land virtually ALL of them are greater than 2gallons and/or spread over less than 100sqft. To kill a deer off of such baiting tactics is, by definition, poaching.

Lastly, referring to a post from another thread: Baiting on public lands leads to unhealthy and disruptive social issues....all of them springing from the false sense of ownership -or territoriality - that occurs when one humps in his beets and another hunter sets up nearby.

Finally,....and lastly, honest!......thank you monitors for keeping this and the other current 'baiting' threads open. Baiting is a phenomena that is highly controversial and important, if not to the resource, then certainly for the social impact it has on the hunting culture.

The issue of baiting needs airing ...at least annually.

[beer and nuts]

Fairfax:
""An apple is round, it is a fruit, you can eat it out of hand, men eat it.
An orange is round, it is a fruit, you can eat it out of hand, men eat it.
Therefore, an apple is an orange.""" Nope. But great analogy. The point being they both served the exact same purpose--to feed man, Hence: food plot/bait pail=attract deer=kill deer

[marty]

Marty, we don't get a few feet of ice and it's been a long long time since we've had a couple feet of snow. They just scratch a little, like they've been doing for the acorns. I can't throw corn out now, that'd be illegal :Modified_

Right but if we had winters like we're suppose to have it would be a different story. The would use up a lot of energy digging through a couple feet of good old fashion mother nature. But believe me I'm pretty happy that we haven't had any of those big whammer jammer Michigan winter in a while now:evil:

Ok here you go :evil:

1 A food plot of sugar beets and I disk them up and hunt over them.

2 I take a bag of beets and toss them out in front of my blind that I bought at the store.

3 I grab a few from my food plot and put them closer to my blind.

4 Say you hunt over a clover patch and all summer you took the clippings you mowed off and toss them at your blind 100 yards away

IMHO It boils down to an attractant for deer . Whether you shoot the deer over a bait pile or a food plot it still comes down to the same results. Only difference is maybe it had clover in is belly or corn/carrots/sugar beet:lol:

............m;)

[Munsterlndr]

Baiting is legal but I find it unethical. As I do baiting for turkey, ducks, geese, elk, pheasant, and grouse. Baiting turns our wonderful wild deer into predictable livestock. A sheep shoot. It dumbs-down this amazing pasttime of outwitting whitetails.


I am always curious why people consider baiting unethical. I'm curious whether you find the following practices unethical, as well.

On one of my hunting properties is a huge oak tree that bears lots of acorns almost every year. I have a treestand nearby and hunt over the acorns that drop off of the oak tree. Do you see hunting over a naturally occuring food source as being unethical?

One of my favorite grouse coverts is an abandoned farm. There are a cluster of very old apple trees surrounding the old foundation of a barn. Nine times out of ten there will be one or two grouse under these apple tree's. Is hunting in proximity to these trees unethical?

I have hunted out West and have set up overlooking a water hole that antelope frequent. Is hunting over a water hole unethical?

Hunters using bait are utilizing one of the strongest factors that motivates an animal, hunger. Other hunters utilize a variety of tactics such as scents, calls and decoys and rattling antlers that stimulate another very powerful motivating need, the desire to breed. In both cases you are exploiting a potential weakness in the animals defenses caused by a strong natural urge. Why do you consider one ethical and the other unethical?

Do you consider using bait while fishing unethical? How about a trapper baiting a trap? Bear hunters hunting over bait? Why is it ethical in one situation but not in another?

Sorry I just don't see a legitimate ethical component to the baiting debate.

[marty]

What I find hard to take is when people claim that baiting or food plots cause deer to turn nocturnal. I have a bean field beside me and I watch the deer all year. You can set your watch on the time you will see most deer come out to feed which around here is 7:00 PM. In Aug and Sep that is early but gee at 7:00 in Oct the dang deer are starting to go nocturnal 7:00 pm in Nov they are now totally nocturnal must be all the bait piles. The reason I would claim for the deer turning noctural has more to do with the influx of hunters and people in the woods like rabbit, woodcock, grouse, turkey, bear, tree rat hunters and so on.By Nov15th there has been alot of activity in the woods and not just from deer hunters to force the deer into moving later. I say bait if you want or plant food plots if you want but leave the choice up to the hunter. Where I hunt I have not seen a problem with bait bags left in the woods the biggest eyesore to me is all the ribbons tied on trees marking trails in out of woods.


:yeahthat:

[jimmyboy]

You know, reading all these various post on this food plot issue, I read the post above and thought to myself, gee, that sounds like an incomplete riddle!

So, I'll complete it and then have someone answer it. (you have 10 seconds)

"If a food-plotter planted a peck of plots, and each plot that the food-plotter planted was in a peck of counties, and each county had a peck of plots, how many plots did the food-plotter plant?"

First correct answer wins!


GO!

I'd rearrange that last line to read 'how many plants did the foodplanter plot?'
Do I win??

[FREEPOP]

I'll try and add one more thing:

How many tons of forage does a food plot give per acre per year vs. how many pounds baited per year?

I'm not totally against baiting but, would like to encourage those that can to plant some food for the animals, if for nothing more, to give something back to something that can be so rewarding, fun, and relaxing.

[Trophy Specialist]

Bait Pile: The public land hunter's only method of attracting deer to a specific area.
I'm in favor of continued legality of baiting, but I don't buy the arguement of baiting being the only way the public land hunter can attract deer. As far as I know, hunters are free to create food plots on public land as long as the aren't cutting down trees. I've created small food plots on public land and have used them to draw deer in for the kill. There are thousands of clearings on public land that are just begging for food plots yet I rarely see people taking advantage of that. I bet if you called the DNR, they would give permission to put in food plots to your hearts desire just about anywhere. Afterall, they are paying people to put them in, so if Joe Hunter volinteered to do it for free, why would they object? There are also other ways besides using bait or food plots to draw deer to certain spots: Lots of scents and other attractants are used with sucess every year. I do not consider baiting to be any different from using scents or other attactants ethics wise though.

[jimmyboy]

Sounds good,but where do we sign up to be paid persons planting public land plots? And I'd want a signed authorization before doing anything to public land, to ward off the enviornment police. I'd further think that a public personal plot would bring issues with others hunting there,You'd have to be magnanimous in that regard.
IMO.the DNR should consider doing large scale WMAs like other states w/large blocks of public woodlands, where tillable areas therein are cropped by farmers who are required to leave a % of the crop standing as wildlife feed.
Those who are forced to hunt public land are getting the short end of the stick and this must be corrected.They buy the same licenses as all do and deserve their fair share be devoted to public hunt improvement.

[Neal]

The original post on this thread asks "What are the differences", NOT "what are there purposes"

To the logic of some, a Hummer is the same as a Yugo, because they provide for the purpose of transportation.

If you can not see the differences between a food plot and a bait pile, you are not looking with your eyes open.

BTW- I have 3 plots: 2 in Tuscole county that I don't hunt, and one in Huron county that I hunt occasionally.

[William H Bonney]

I hunt over bait. But after reading through the posts on "ethics", I've changed my stance. I now find it very unethical to shoot a deer while it has a mouth full of food, or walking to an area where it might be eating. From now on I'm just going to shoot deer while their sleeping.:rolleyes:

[beer and nuts]

Hey Neal, I'll bite. What is the difference between a Hummer and Yugo??

Both have four wheels, radio, windows, a driver, steering wheel, seats, glove compartment, ooohh wait I know the rich can afford the Hummer and the less fortunate the Yugo, so the Hummer is better!!!? One thing I forgot to add inthe analogy, the Yugo gets BETTER gas milleage. BUT I would never drive over the mighty Mac with the Yugo!:) Both get you from point A to point B, one just in style and comfort.

[NorthJeff]

OSXer,

"This is my experience in the "Great White North". I know that others with baiting experience in the deer abundant regions of the southern farmland area can be entirely different, but then again, most don't rely on bait as the primary method of hunting in those areas, as they do around here."

You seemed to have missed the point. Baiting in the SLP is a non-factor in my opinion, and experience...not even a comparison to the "great white north" that was talked about at the beginning of the post. So, your points as valid or non-valid as they may be, have nothing to do with the experiences of baiting in non-ag northern areas where a culture of hunting has developed to the point that many have never hunted without bait and baiting has an entirely different level of impact.

[Neal]

Hey Neal, I'll bite. What is the difference between a Hummer and Yugo??

Both have four wheels, radio, windows, a driver, steering wheel, seats, glove compartment, ooohh wait I know the rich can afford the Hummer and the less fortunate the Yugo, so the Hummer is better!!!? One thing I forgot to add inthe analogy, the Yugo gets BETTER gas milleage. BUT I would never drive over the mighty Mac with the Yugo!:) Both get you from point A to point B, one just in style and comfort.

If you really don't know the differences between the two vehicles listed above, I don't think I can really help you.

[NorthJeff]

"Food Plot: Private land owners way of attracting deer to a specific area.

Bait Pile: Also a private land owners way to attract deer to a specific area.

Bait Pile: The public land hunter's only method of attracting deer to a specific area."

You have to add:

Bait Pile: The inexperienced or new public land hunter's best way of attracting deer to a specific area.

Bait Pile: The worst method to consistantly harvest bucks by the public land hunter.

Bait Pile: The now accepted hunting culture of hunting on public land areas that is actually one of the least consistent and least successful methods of hunting but very few realize this because they have never been exposed to any other form of hunting in sometimes 2 decades or more.

Food Plot: The private landowner's way of attracting deer to a specific area...an area that is often worth 10's of thousands of dollars, is taxed, often carries substantial debt, after countless hours of work, all while under the jealous scrutiny of hunters that are forced to hunt public land that are left to refer to a food plot as baiting with little to no actual experience with food plots.

[east bay ed]

i must be doing somehting wrong because i never have had countless hours working on my food plots.:confused:

[lostmale]

Bait pile : Cheap way to bring deer from private landowners food plots and an outlet for all others to blame for DNR deer herd mismanagement.

Food plot: Expensive way to draw deer away from public land and an outlet to tell others they are second rate and inexperienced on land they have little control over.

[Dawg]

There are so many absurd generalizations here (on both sides of the issue) that it would take forever to respond IF you could stomach reading them all.

[FREEPOP]

There are so many absurd generalizations here (on both sides of the issue) that it would take forever to respond IF you could stomach reading them all.

Agreed, read them all and no longer have a stomach or I can't stomach it any longer. :dizzy: :sad:

[jimmyboy]

I've spent countless hours on my food plots. A 70 yr old orchard and a 5 acre patch of birdsfoot trefoil;in fact,I've yet to spend the first hour on either.Orchard's on it's last legs and farmer friend does the trefoil.
Have spent some hours in the past putting up my spin feeder as to concentrate deer morn & eve movements to my favor windwise in the transition area.

[marty]

Well before the padlock is nailed to this one. Here's another thought. People in favor of food plots are mostly on private lands. I can't even dream of the wars on state land if someone planted a food plot. Can you see opening morning a guy who put all the "hours":lol: into a plot and here come another guy at the other end during rifle season:yikes: .

Baiting is favored by most hunters on small parcels and state land hunting as a way to attract deer to them. All of us have different ways to hunt whether is over a pile of apples or a food plot. As long as both are legal what's the harm:evil:...........m;)

[Whit1]

Well before the padlock is nailed to this one.

Awww! Your safe for now Marty!!!!!..........but the time is drawing near~~:lol:

[plugger]

Does anyone bait on a food plot?

[marty]

Does anyone bait on a food plot?

No baiting on food plots but I did hear some guys talk about frost seeded corn in their clover patch:lol: :yikes: :evil:

[marty]

Awww! Your safe for now Marty!!!!!..........but the time is drawing near~~:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Whit1]

Does anyone bait on a food plot?

Mike,
Wassa madder wid ya? Can ya imagine the disaster that would be in here? Combining bait on top of a food plot! Are ya tryin' for Armagddon?.........:yikes:

You have a one hour detention after school tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

[plugger]

A guy I work with just got back from illinois where he hunted with an outfitter. No baiting is allowed there and he said the guy was a real straight shooter, but then he started talking about all the ears of corn left in the field. Our combine is a real antique but I couldndt open the cylinder up enough to spit whole ears with out some serious adjustment! Some water foul clubs have always been known to have alot of combine problems.

[fairfax1]

....when I wrote that baiting was 'unethical'. Munsters' post asking for clarification has made me think a little more about it. Perhaps, 'unethical' was dialed-up a tad more than necessary.

I should have written 'unsportsmanlike'.

Munster asks: "I'm curious whether you find the following practices unethical, as well.
On one of my hunting properties is a huge oak tree that bears lots of acorns almost every year. I ..... hunt over the acorns that drop off of the oak tree. Do you see hunting over a naturally occuring food source as being unethical?"

No, I don't. The tree is there 24/7/365, it is part of the habitat....even if you or your Pop planted it. However, if you were to scoop up a bushel of those nuts and locate them near a stand it would be 'baiting'...and, a bushel quantity would be illegal.....and, if you killed a deer over that bushel it would be poaching. Now THAT is unethical. Unsportsmanlike too.

Munster writes: "One of my favorite grouse coverts is an abandoned farm. There are a cluster of very old apple trees surrounding the old foundation of a barn. Nine times out of ten there will be one or two grouse under these apple tree's. Is hunting in proximity to these trees unethical?
No, I don't think it is. But, like the acorns above if you transport those apples to the aspen grove in order to shoot a grouse off of the pile that would be baiting (it may be illegal, but I'm not sure).........I AM sure it would be unsportsmanlike. I wouldn't hunt with a guy who baits his pats.

As I've written in earlier posts baiting as practiced in Michgan by the overwhelming majority of baiters is done illegally due to the over-limit amount they put out. And, if one kills a deer over such an excess quantity of bait that is poaching. And that is illegal. Unethical.

And unsporstsmanlike, too.

Other than that I don't have a problem with it.


__________________