Bait

[Joe Archer]

Is anything being done to stop the sale of bait north of M-55? Many hunters see bait for sale on every corner come to the conclusion "everyone else is baiting so I better do so also". The bottom line is that bait is being purchased and used for hunting in these areas. <----<<<

[boehr]

I know of no legal way to stop someone from selling bait.

[PrtyMolusk]

Howdy-
A lot of folks have been relying on bait sales for income for many years. Unless it is declared illegal, you can't expect them to give up what may be a substantial portion of that income.
Les

[marty]

Joe I don't think anyone could stop the selling of bait. That would be like a party store not selling booze cause it's illegal to drink and drive. I still see a bunch of it around even big piles and always wondered what they do with all the bait that's left over. They can't dump it in the woods legally.

Maybe bury it???...Marty:eek:

[trout]

Heres a link from this very site :)
http://www.bovinetb.com/SubPage.asp?sec=3&LinkID=22
Check out the site in the bannner it's pretty impressive.
Lots to read this winter :)

[Joe Archer]

If we can pass a law stating that it is illegal to bait, why can't we pass a law banning the sale of bait in the no-baiting zone? I don't understand. Granted you will still have grain elevators and farm stores selling corn, but access to bait will be substantially reduced. Anyway, you would think that the farmers would automatically be more compliant. After all it farmers that the DNR is trying to help.
I am just completely puzzled by the whole situation from banning bait, to selling on on every corner, to trying to completely wipe out the deer herd in my area. Is anyone else confused? <----<<<

[Hamilton Reef]

The selling of bait is big joke in West Michigan. They still sell the loader bucket and pickup loads even though the law says only 2 pounds per day can be used or 5 pounds for recreational feeding. They just laugh and say they are only putting out 2 sugar beets per day, but just want to stock up a bit. Yeah right.

I suggest that the sellers should have to weigh the bait in two pound packages like a grocery store and limit sales maximum 2 packages per day per customer.

[marty]

The DNR can't even force farmers to keep their round bales out of the fields where deer can easily get to them. I know this is a AG thing but again you have to stop it all not just a bucket of corn.
Baiting is here to stay whether people like it or not. I'd still like to know what they do with the bait that's left over. I seen a sign on a bunch of round bales that says "deer keep out" now that's a good idea to keep them away......marty:D

[Bob S]

Originally posted by marty
I'd still like to know what they do with the bait that's left over. They continue to sell it. There is a gas station/party store in Oil City that sells feed in 50lb. bags all year.

[The Nailer]

Joe, I am just as confused about this as you are. There is a store in Hawks (Presque Iscle County) that sells a ton of bait. The guy that owns the store is a dispatcher for the sherrifs department!

Some of the most vocal dairy farmers regarding TB are from this area. They all whine and carry on about the deer infecting their herds, but they grow crops and package them and sell them as bait. They can't have it both ways!

I am so tired of of all of this I wish they just ban it period and get it over with. There is a great article in the new Deer & Deer Hunting magazine that address' baiting. It's worth a read. It confirms what I've thought all along about the deer going nocturnal when bait is available. It also discusses a disease deer get from eating bait, which I did not know about. If this is true I don't know why baiting is allowed anywhere. Certainly as a sportsmen I could not bring myself to bait again knowing it causes this much harm. Another interesting statistic was the success ratio betwen not baiting and baiting. It was so marginal it hardly seems worth the trouble. I know it's not for me that's one of the reasons I stopped baiting several years ago.

I am not trying to start another discussion on this issue just voicing my frustration.

Anyways thats my $.02, for what it's worth;)

[Pinefarm]

A $2000 fine and no license for three years for hunting over bait would get people's attention. But you'd have to ban it statewide. How come all the duck hunters aren't hunting over bait? They can buy corn anywhere.

[Hamilton Reef]

If there was a requirment that deer bait can only be sold in containers equal to the legal limit to set out (2 pounds) then the sellers might make more profit per sales of small units.

I think an onion bag with one 2-pound sugar beet in it would be hillarious pain in the butt for the baiters, especially if the cost was $2.00/bag because of the trouble to the sellers that had to go through the bagging process, labeling, and labor time. There should also be a sin tax of $1.00 per bag added to finance the cost of the TB program. This is just wishfull thinking though.

[Liver and Onions]

Hamilton,
Twice you have made references to the limits being 2 pounds or 5 pounds per day. I believe the correct amount is 2 gallons or 5 gallons. I fail to see how spreading this much bait in a 10' X10' area will spread any more disease than deer eating acorns or apples under an oak or apple tree.
L & O

[Hamilton Reef]

L&O, You are correct. My mental block was still thinking the small volumne of 2 milk jugs in onion bag.

[goose hunter]

When they could bait in this area they didnt plant the food plots like they do now. The deer herd will grow faster now than when they baited. I have hunted this area all my life and I never remember the clubs planting so many food plots as they do now. I think the deer have food all year now verses just the bait piles during the hunting season as before. I feel they made a mistake taking away baiting from the rich clubs. They will just plant more food plots every year and clear more fields than ever. I would rather they allowed them to put out the piles rather than whole fields that never get harvested. Think about this. The small tract guys dont have much chance of getting deer around some of these clubs as they have huge food plots and very little hunter pressure to move the deer. It will only get worse the way I see it. Some of the members are D.N.R. employees also. So it is hard to say the D.N.R. isnt aware of what is going on. Go back to baiting if that is how you chose to hunt is my thinking.

[Heybeerman]

Why don’t they outlaw baiting for the whole state or the lift the restrictions for the whole state? Well if bait is outlawed some farmers will complain that they are losing thousands of dollars in lost sales, if bait is legal than some farmers will complain because they will lose thousands of dollars because of the TB and their cows. So the DNR is trying to keep everyone happy but they can’t. So why don’t they make a law that they can enforce without a gray area, either bait or don’t bait. Also personally I chose not to bait after I saw a study done at the University of Minnesota a few years back that said that some bait used for deer can do more harm than good. If I can find it I will post it. Working on Christmas sucks but I can’t complain about the pay. Just my .02 cents



Happy holidays everyone

[Fierkej]

FYI.....

Due to the holiday many DNR personel are out of the office unit January 2nd. The site will be monitored, although some issues on the forum may not be addressed until after this date.

Happy Holidays!

Julie

[Danatodd99]

What we are missing here is the fact that this came from bovines first, not Odocoileus virginianus.... AKA ....White-tailed Deer.
Sure the Deer are helping to spread it, but it originated in Cows.

Farmers need to take some responsibility for this outbreak of TB.
Maybe if the farmers were a little better at maintaining the health of their herds this outbreak may never have happened.
Maybe no matter what anyone had done this all still would have happened. We will never know why, but deer were here long before the Cows were.
What we all need to do is work together to reslove the issue.
Farmers cannot have their cake and eat it too. Don't be crying because the baiting of deer spreading TB and then in the same breath cry because the DNR makes it illegal to bait, then think that the state will make up for your lost income due to the fact that baiting is not allowed.

I am not originally from Michigan and I have never baited to kill a deer, I never will bait to kill a deer. You lack some serious hunting Skills if you need to sit over a pile of sugar beets, Corn, carrots or whatever to fill your freezer. I do use scent attractants, that however isn't baiting .... I am sure someone will think differently.
It wouldn't bother me one bit if baiting was illegal in this state.

[goose hunter]

I dont need to bait but I would like to be able to have the rules changed so I could have a pile outside the house for my wife and children could watch the deer. It is a treat to watch the deer as we sit indoors having breakfast. I would not mind if everyone could bait it will not change the way I hunt. It does seem to keep the younger less experienced hunters in their stand longer when they see deer on their bait pile. That is most likely safer than them walking the trails after they got bored sitting watching the deer trail that someone put them on. It doesnt teach them to hunt but it does keep them hunting. I would guess we have a whole generation of baiters that cant deer hunt any other way. I say let them bait if they want. On private land one should be able to do as you want. Isnt that what private means?

[Bob S]

Originally posted by goose hunter
Isnt that what private means? I thought that private means you can do what the DEQ gives you a permit to do.:confused:

[goose hunter]

DEQ, better known in the state system as PERMITS R US.:D

[NEMichsportsman]

Originally posted by goose hunter
I would guess we have a whole generation of baiters that cant deer hunt any other way.


I would say there is no guessing involved.


I dont feel there is anything wrong with baiting in areas that it is legal, I have done less baiting over the years, and enjoy the challenge.I have grown to enjoy the hunt and the whole deer camp experience, as much as the thrill of getting a deer. It is a good thing too as I see fewer deer every season that goes by, in my area.

There have also been times where I would have liked to be able to throw some bait and help my odds, ex) the last week of the season bow hunting. I like to have some meat for the freezer. I have not become that much of a purist...once again that is purely academic as I cant legally do so. Bait hunting is not a guarantee either. Everytime I put a minnow on a hook doesn't mean I will be pulling in a Walleye.



jp

[Pinefarm]

Ray, when we were talking about snagging, you mentioned that it was illegal to even POSSESS M-60's. Why can't something like that be done in TB counties? Couldn't they word something like "it is illegal to sell any produce, grain or seed in quantities greater than 10 pounds in any county found to test positive for Bovine TB, unless one is a licensed feed dealer. Anyone attempting to possess any produce, grain or seed in amounts greater than 10 pounds in a TB positive county must have a valid permit, issued by the DNR." This would make it OK for farmers to get feed for livestock, but they have to get a permit. And people with bird feeder can still buy 10 pound bags. The farmers shouldn't complain, because they're the very people crying the most. And those that claim they're buying it in TB area's to use in non-TB area's are screwed and will have to buy it where they claim they are using it. I'd even put signs up on I-75 saying that you can not possess it either, without a permit. Tough measures, but shouldn't a quarantine be strict? Otherwise, why even have the law at all? Just like the drug war, it must be stopped at the sale and distibrution, not trying to catch every consumer.

[Tom Morang]

I don't know Bob. It seems to me that more peer pressure could be used in this instance. How many guys see that bait being sold to someone they know who hunts in the TB area and says nothing or looks the other way? That's the real problem in my estimation. We are too quick to ask for legislation and more laws when as a hunting community we have the resources to stop it. We ask for someone else to deal with the dirty work and do the job we should be doing. We have met the enemy and it is us.

[marty]

As soon as they start busting farmers who leave their round bales out all winter I'll start turning people who bait. Hey maybe we could have volunteers who could sit at these mom and pop stores and when they see someone buy a bag of bait they could call the DNR. 1-800=CALL-RAB Report all baiters:D ......marty:D

[goose hunter]

Might need more operators to answer the phone lines if we do that. They sell many tons in my area. Atlanta. They say its not baiting but composting.

[Joe Archer]

DNR could offer a reward to the arrest and conviction of persons in violation of the baiting laws? It sickens me to see the illegal blinds and bait stations on the middle of state land in my area. I have thought of turning each and every one of them into the DNR, but have also thought of my cabin be burned to the ground. Can we turn someone in anonymously? <----<<<

[Tom Morang]

I do believe you can Joe. Maybe Boehr will respond to your question, I'm sure he could be more specific.

....tm

[goose hunter]

I found a blind on state land that the owner had cut a 100 yard swath thru the woods on 2 sides of the shed. I will take my gps and get the numbers then take them to the DNR. They can show up during season and I know they will write some big time violations this year. Hope I'm around when they show-up, I would like to hear their responce to being caught. They should have to replace the trees they cut down and remove that shed. Hope the DNR will do something.

[boehr]

There are rewards already for reporting poaching providing the subject is convicted and yes you can report poachers anonymously. You can also report poachers and stay confidential.

[goose hunter]

What would be the penalty for a guy that has a set-up like the one I posted before about the shed and the swath cut thru the timber on state land? He seems to think he owns that area.

[dene49939]

no bait might even mean better deer later on for those who put in the time to get out and hunt rather than sit in a box with a 30-06 over 500 pounds of corn . ive never considered this proper and i already see those people not getting there every year 8 point by my property up north. i got 3 deer this year on my feet and it took some time and they arent the biggest but i am proud to say i did it that way. the box guys are doing terrible without bait and they even got rifles hehe
maybe there is hope for tommorow