Another Management Proposal Based on Fairness

[Luv2hunteup]

We've all read about every conceivable suggestion for improving our buck to doe ratio except this one. This one involves very little sacrafice by any one group of hunters.

Youth, archery, firearms, crossbow, muzzleloader hunters will all be treated fairly and with equal opportunity. Season lengths won't need to change, season dates won't need to change, legislators won't have to repeal the 2 buck tag and a vast majority of the states deer hunter will experience a better hunting experience.

Many threads involve the unfairness of youth hunters shooting bucks and how bucks should not be hunted when they are most vunerable. Many say doe harvest should be early and crossbow don't belong in archery season. All these things are addressed and more.

Here's a simple solution that extremely fair. "No bucks shall be taken prior to November 15th". Think about it, no one group has the unfair advantage of a head start on killing the buck you've scouted all summer. All legal weapons can be used on that date anyway so no rule change is required, cheap implementation. The positives greatly out weigh any minor negatives.

Buck hunting is mostly after the rut.
Young bucks will have had a little education.
Doe numbers should be reduced prior to buck opener resulting in a shorter more intensive rut. Higher recruitment rate.
Nobody complaining about wounded and dead bucks found prior to opening day except for poached ones.
Improved buck to doe ratio.
Every group now has the same advantage.

See, all the bases are covered and no one losses any days afield. :)

Happy Holidays

[farmlegend]

I'd go for it with one slight modification.

No bucks to be taken after November 15. ;)

[plugger]

Got to go with farm legend on this one.

[Munsterlndr]

I'll vote with luv2huntup on this one. The first two weeks of November are the prime rut weeks, when the bucks are the most vulnerable. Don't allow buck hunting during those two weeks and you would protect the majority of the mature bucks.

Somehow I don't think this one is going to fly, however. :lol:

In all seriousness, if you want to make a simple change that will have the least amount of impact on hunters but will save a reasonable number of younger bucks, go to a single Buck license a year. The idea that anyone needs to harvest more than one buck a year is silly. Take your one buck, whatever size you want, and if you want more venison whack some does.

[fairfax1]

The buck stops at one.

[plugger]

How about if we limited people to hunting in the county which thet reside?

[skulldugary]

Never work Plugger,not enough places to hunt in the more populated areas and the economy would take a big hit in the northern counties.People who have property in counties where they don't live would be shanked.

[kitchue]

Somehow I don't think this one is going to fly, however. :lol:


Bingo.

Depends whatever side of the fence your on.

sean

[GVDocHoliday]

Actually the peak of the rut is usually through the first week of firearmopener.

Archery hunters already harvest a higher precentage of antlerless deer than antlered deer. Not to mention only 150,000 archery only hunters as opposed to 650,000 firearm only hunters...hmm. Seeing as how the succes rate for archery hunters is actually less than 30%, very little does would actually be taken to be effective. Going by the numbers, the smart thing to increase antlerless harvest and decrease buck harvest would be to do what farmlegend says.

[Bmac]

No way! I just bought a new bow. :D Around me, the majority of the bucks harvested are taken by Nov.15 either by legal arrow or poachers. :bash: The landowners to the south hung up 8 bucks by Nov. 10. I'd much rather see one buck (antlered or button) per year and double the license fees.

[Munsterlndr]

Actually the peak of the rut is usually through the first week of firearmopener.

Depends on where you are in the State but the maximum buck movement occurs during the first two weeks of Novemeber. Some of this may be pre-rut or the chasing phase. My deer cams show this period as the maximum daytime buck activity on my property. If you want some anecdotal confirmation, look at the VACATION thread in the whitetail forum. Overwhelmingly, people suggested that the first two weeks of Novemeber was the best time to be in the woods. One poster mentioned that MIT did a study that showed 11/10 as the peak of the rut in Michigan. By the firearms opener the rut is usually tailing off, at least in my part of the woods.

[Whit1]

Depends on where you are in the State but the maximum buck movement occurs during the first two weeks of Novemeber. Some of this may be pre-rut or the chasing phase. My deer cams show this period as the maximum daytime buck activity on my property. If you want some anecdotal confirmation, look at the VACATION thread in the whitetail forum. Overwhelmingly, people suggested that the first two weeks of Novemeber was the best time to be in the woods. One poster mentioned that MIT did a study that showed 11/10 as the peak of the rut in Michigan. By the firearms opener the rut is usually tailing off, at least in my part of the woods.


That has been my observation as well. The last time the peak of the rut....up here anyway.....came during rifle season it was in 1999. I saw several different bucks and took a very nice 10 pt., 2.5 year old dandy that hangs on the wall behind me. The peak was very late that year and was spread out over five days. The season opened on a Saturday ( I think) and I took the 10 pt. on Thursday morning as he was scent checking a very long and well used scrape line.

[Letmgro]

That has been my observation as well. The last time the peak of the rut....up here anyway.....came during rifle season it was in 1999. I saw several different bucks and took a very nice 10 pt., 2.5 year old dandy that hangs on the wall behind me. The peak was very late that year and was spread out over five days. The season opened on a Saturday ( I think) and I took the 10 pt. on Thursday morning as he was scent checking a very long and well used scrape line.

Please define "peak of the rut" ?
Is it the peak of the chasing phase? I found that to be early November.
Is it the peek of the breeding phase? I saw a doe get bred on October 7th, one on Nov.16th, and one on Nov. 18th. I would have to say mid November would be the peek of the breeding phase.
Is it the peak of the seeking phase? When most all does are bred and the bucks that are left are desperately trying to find the last few hot does. I find this is in late November.

Let's just move deer hunting season from Feb 1st to April 30th and we wouldn't have any management problems. Most bucks wouldn't have horns, so the male female harvest ratio should be around 50/50.

[NorthJeff]

I've got some hunting land for sale in MI...anybody?

Seriously...why hunt in MI if we can't hunt bucks during the rut? I'd be moving quicker than a flock of geese headed south in Oct.

[Whit1]

Peak of the rut:

Just before the chasing phase and the breeding phase meet.

[farmlegend]

Please define "peak of the rut" ?
Is it the peak of the chasing phase? I found that to be early November.
Is it the peek of the breeding phase? I saw a doe get bred on October 7th, one on Nov.16th, and one on Nov. 18th. I would have to say mid November would be the peek of the breeding phase.

You called it. Though most buck visibility is in early November, peak breeding is later. Fetal analysis has indicated that the median breeding date in the southern lower is around 11/15 - 11/17.

[Munsterlndr]

Call it what you will, it's the maximum visability period that is going to expose the bucks to the greatest likelyhood of getting whacked.

If you really want to preserve mature bucks, how about a complete moratorium on Buck hunting for the first two weeks of November? Any Takers? I won't hold my breath. :lol:

[Letmgro]

Call it what you will, it's the maximum visability period that is going to expose the bucks to the greatest likelyhood of getting whacked.
:

Bait pile.

[NorthJeff]

Up here in the U.P. for the hundreds of does over the past few decades the avg. date of conception was 11/11 base on ultrasound data.

Once the bucks are locked up with does, the hunting is better than mid-Oct....but can't compete with the last few days of Oct-the first 10 days of Nov. My best bucks in WI, the U.P., and the thumb have been shot on the 31st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th...you don't have to guess when I'll be in the woods. In fact, I spend less and less time in Oct. every year.

I like that bait pile comment. Take that bait away up here and we improve buck age structure. Our bucks don't get wacked up here in early Nov. by anybody but a very few dedicated bow hunters that make up a very small percentage of hunters and shoot a very low amount of bucks overall. Instead, our bucks get shot in the first couple days of rifle over bait. Take the bait away and the number of bucks shot goes down considerably and bucks will be shot more randomly as to age. The bait targets the most inexperienced deer in the woods..the yearling bucks. They aren't with their mothers anymore, they haven't been a part of any good bachelor groups, and they are basically on their own and have the least amount of experience to know that a bait pile means danger.

[weatherby]

In all seriousness, if you want to make a simple change that will have the least amount of impact on hunters but will save a reasonable number of younger bucks, go to a single Buck license a year. The idea that anyone needs to harvest more than one buck a year is silly. Take your one buck, whatever size you want, and if you want more venison whack some does.


I agree, but something else will need to be done to prevent people from usin others tags on their bucks. Either stop sellin licenses OCT 1st or raise the price so people won't stack the tags up to be used whenever they please

[buckslayerII]

I agree, but something else will need to be done to prevent people from usin others tags on their bucks. Either stop sellin licenses OCT 1st or raise the price so people won't stack the tags up to be used whenever they please

Weatherby - those are two very good suggestions to solve the problem of everybody's wife, grandmother, grandfather, great-grandmother and so on...............becoming a hunter ;)

[Gilbey]

I agree certainly with taking the bait away.

[Munsterlndr]

I agree certainly with taking the bait away.

I seriously doubt this will happen unless CWD shows up.

For all that some people in these forums like to look down on the use of bait, the sad reality is that a majority of hunters in Michigan utilize it. Nobody wants to admit it, many lie about it but an awful lot do it.

Another thing to think about is that the sale of bait probably adds hundreds of thousands if not millions of $ to the agricultural economy in Michigan. With our economy as ravaged as it is, I doubt the State is going to institute a policy that will further hurt the economy.

I'll be the first to admit that I've used it in the past and will probably use it in the future, although I now use it primarily for taking pictures over with my trail cam. Now that I have gotten into growing food plots there is not much point in hunting over a bait pile. My main objection to it is not ethical or moral but that it tends to turn deer completly nocturnal. My neighbors, who incidently are hard core trophy bow hunters, use automatic corn feeders. I certainly don't criticize them for it, to each his own, as long as it's legal.

[Gilbey]

You're right, I don't think so either. And there sure would be a lot of people that would be pretty pissed off if it ever did happen. Many people know no different.

[Gilbey]

Oh, and incidentally I don't want to look like I'm looking down on the baiting. I do it. I will continue to do it as long as it is legal. I used to 100% bait hunt. Now in blocking up my time I'm down to probably 40% of the time looking at my bait. It's much more fun to stalk or throw a climber on the back.