Mineral Stations - ? for Trophy Specialist & Others

[jk hillsdale]

TS,

At some point earlier in the year I read an article you had written about how you establish mineral stations. I can't find or recall the publication. Would it be possible to post that information here on the site?

I'm also interested in hearing from others about how/when you establish mineral stations.

[chevyjam2001]

I will start mine back up in March when most of the snow is off of the ground. They don't touch it in the winter, I have some out there now but it is just covered with snow. To start one, find a well used trail somewhere in or close to cover. You want to put it somewhere the deer feel secure so that they use it regularly. Clear a spot just off of that trail and pour out your mineral. I use the Purina brand deer mineral for simplicity. It has a great balance of mineral and salt, the deer just hammer it and it is half the cost of the premium brands.

[Munsterlndr]

I believe that mineral attractants fall under the definition of "bait" or "food" and as such are subject to the baiting regulations. If so then they can only be put out in two gallon quantities spread over 100 square feet and if placed more than 100 yards from the landowners residence, can only be put out between October 1 and January 1.

Seems kind of silly but rules is rules.

Havng said that, in the past I've been real happy with Purina Antler max mixed with crystalized softner salt in a 4 to 1 ratio. Both bucks and does seem to hit it hard between the end of March and the beginning of September.

[chevyjam2001]

How can it be illegal its not food :lol: . Besides doesn't the DNR hand book state that they support "voluntary" QDM. Isn't mineral supplementation useful in a QDM management plan :dizzy: ??? To use a mineral lick as bait would be pointless IMO. I put a camera on mine in Sept and from then til now I only have pictures of does using it. The bucks seemed to stop using once their antlers hardened and they shed velvet. Just my 02.

[jml2]

JK-

I have a recipe that I found on another website (maybe qdma) that you can make a large quantity with ingredients from a feed store for like $25. It is on my computer at work--I will send it to you Tuesday.

I put mine out after last season and the deer didn't start hitting it until spring time. Once they found it, they really tore it up.

I have read that they will not hit it this time of year, but at several of my spots deer are digging thru the snow to get to it.

[marksman72]

A friend of mine told me about Lucky Buck minerals. They have a website and are from Michigan, which is good. I got on their site and ask them a few questions and in 10 minutes, the owner of the company responded and was real nice. Gander Mt. had it on sale (In Grand Rapids) a few weeks ago for $14.99 reg. $22.00 and there is a money back guarantee if you don't see any rack improvements. :lol:

[Whit1]

How can it be illegal its not food :lol: . Besides doesn't the DNR hand book state that they support "voluntary" QDM. Isn't mineral supplementation useful in a QDM management plan :dizzy: ??? To use a mineral lick as bait would be pointless IMO. I put a camera on mine in Sept and from then til now I only have pictures of does using it. The bucks seemed to stop using once their antlers hardened and they shed velvet. Just my 02.


We had this discussion in here last fall. Mineral supplements are treated the same as baiting. We can wail and weep all we want about it not being food.......that's what I also thought.......but the two are treated as one and the same.

[Trophy Specialist]

I have had several articles published about putting out minerals for deer. Putting minerals out for deer is perfectly legal in Michigan as long as they are placed during deer season in areas where baiting is legal. I usually put mine out at the tail end of deer season and I follow all baiting regulations in so doing.

[chevyjam2001]

:lol:

[jk hillsdale]

I have had several articles published about putting out minerals for deer. Putting minerals out for deer is perfectly legal in Michigan as long as they are placed during deer season in areas where baiting is legal. I usually put mine out at the tail end of deer season and I follow all baiting regulations in so doing.

TS,

The one thing that I'm specifically trying to remember from the article is a tip you gave about incorporating the use of a stump or something of that nature in terms of where you placed the mineral. Any advice you could give in that regard would be appreciated.

[Trophy Specialist]

TS,

The one thing that I'm specifically trying to remember from the article is a tip you gave about incorporating the use of a stump or something of that nature in terms of where you placed the mineral. Any advice you could give in that regard would be appreciated.
When you put certain minerals on the ground, the deer will typically excavate a huge hole at the site which turns into a mud pit washing away the minerals. I put my minerals out around stumps becasue it tends to hold the soil and minerals better. The bigger the stumps the better. I put out many small amounts of minerals, typically about one galon of minerals every 20 acres. I haul a couple buckets of dirt every year to those sites to fill in the holes around the stumps and I fill the holes with clay if it's nearby. I put the minerals on high spots in front of hunting stands. Even though the deer aren't usually licking the minerals during hunting season, they are still drawn to the spots out of habit and social curiosity. There are always lots of rubs and scraps near the mineral sites. Putting out minerals near a stand will condition the deer to the blind or treestand and they will ignor it after a year or so. I mainly use 30-06 along with some homemade mineral mixes and again, as long as the minerals are placed during deer season (0ct. 1- Jan 1) it is perfectly legal and also good for the deer nutritionally. There have been studies that have proven that feeding deer certain minerals has prevented CWD. On the other hand, to my knowlage it has not been proven that feeding minerals to deer causes disease.

[Leon2]

When I was holding a class on deer management in the Eastern UP, the subject of legal use of mineral supplements came up and a DNR law enforcement officer was present. He didn't know that the DNR had a formal, written position prohibiting the use of salt blocks and mineral supplements and he stated that he would never bother to arrest a person for use of them in reasonable quantities. He acknowledged that other officers might arrest someone for mineral supplements usage.

I hear two views on the use of mineral supplements. One school says that they are one of the best things you can do to improve the size of antlers in your area. My personal experience is that I've seen some increase in antler size since I started using mineral supplements and I know a number of landowners who claim the same thing. It seems reasonable to me that with a higher intake of minerals early in the spring, bucks would grow bigger antlers.

The second school says that there is absolutely no published, scientific evidence that mineral supplements improve antler size. One person telling me this is a wildlife biologist who is one of the state's strongest QDM supporters. I haven't researched his claim, but I trust his expertise. He also warns that mineral supplements could help spread CWD and TB, just as any supplemental feeding program can, because it concentrates deer in a smaller area where there is more contact with other deer and their body fluids (saliva, nasal drip, urine and feces). This also seems reasonable to me.

I am intriqued by both viewpoints and haven't yet decided which camp I am in... :confused: :)

[Liver and Onions]

...... There have been studies that have proven that feeding deer certain minerals has prevented CWD..........

TS,
I would like to read that research if you can furnish it.

We like to put out 5-6 stations per 40. Get the kind with selinium(sp). It is always cheaper if you buy the salt with trace minerals from a store like TSC. Lots of info on this site if you do a search.

[jk hillsdale]

Thank you TS - I knew there was a purpose for utilizing stumps, I just couldn't recall the specifics.

[Trophy Specialist]

TS,
I would like to read that research if you can furnish it.
We like to put out 5-6 stations per 40. Get the kind with selinium(sp). It is always cheaper if you buy the salt with trace minerals from a store like TSC. Lots of info on this site if you do a search.


Here’s an article on the subject. Pick out some key words and then search on Google for more information and you’ll see that it is not a myth:
http://espn.go.com/outdoors/conservation/columns/swan_james/1498383.html

[Whit1]

I just did some editing of posts in order to keep this topic on track and away from the personal stuff.

[Trophy Specialist]

Another trick that I do is to dig up ant hill debris and mix it in with the minerals. I read somewhere that this material is high in certain minerals and it also resists freezing making the minerals more available to deer during the early spring.

[Sib]

I do remember the thread last year and that minerals are considered bait. I like TS's work around for keeping things legal.

Putting minerals out for deer is perfectly legal in Michigan as long as they are placed during deer season in areas where baiting is legal. I usually put mine out at the tail end of deer season and I follow all baiting regulations in so doing.

Perfect, the stuff won't be hit until they need it and it complies with current laws.:)

[NorthJeff]

I've always used a stump. I cut a hole in the top and pour the minerals in the hole on the top of the stump. I've found most stumps last a very long time and eventually the minerals make there way through the stump and out the bottom of the stump. Deer eat the outside of the stump, eat the dirt around the stump, and paw through the roots at the base of the stump to pull more mineral out. At some point, you pour the minerals on the top....and a good portions come out in between the roots at the base. The entire stump becomes 1 big mineral lick and even if you don't place minerals on the stump for a year the deer still are attracted to the stump.

Might help the deer, and as long as we have bait piles, it can't be any worse than bait piles as far as nose to nose contact and such, but it sure is a nice spot to place a camera throughout the summer!

[chevyjam2001]

If the "bait" is still there after January 1st it isn't legal.

[Trophy Specialist]

If the "bait" is still there after January 1st it isn't legal.
As long as the minerals are "put out" between between Oct. 1 and Jan. 1, then it is legal under the definition of the law. "Putting Out" is the key words in the definition (makes me think back to dating decisions made back in high school too:lol: ).

Here's the rules on deer baiting and feeding from the DNR website:

"Baiting" is defined as putting out food materials for deer to attract, lure, or entice them as an aid in hunting.
A person baiting deer must comply with the baiting regulations. Baiting for elk is illegal.
Baiting (Deer) –
• The volume of bait scattered on the ground cannot
exceed two (2) gallons at any one hunting site at
any time, statewide.
• Baiting can occur only from October 1 to January 1.
• The bait material may be of any food type.
• The bait must be dispersed over a minimum of a
10-foot by 10-foot area. The bait can be scattered
directly on the ground by any means, including
mechanical spin-cast feeders, provided that the
spin-cast feeder does not distribute on the ground
more than the maximum volume allowed.
• Baiting for elk is illegal.

“Feeding” is defined as placing food materials out that attract deer or elk for any other reason.
o Recreational Feeding is feeding for wildlife viewing purposes only.
A person feeding deer must comply with the regulations for recreational viewing.
o Supplemental Feeding of deer and/or elk is prohibited in Michigan except for specific portions of
8 counties in the Upper Peninsula. Supplemental feeding of deer is by permit only, if specific
conditions are met, and is only allowed in a specific portion of State. The supplemental deer
feeding area is all portions of Ontonagon, Houghton, Keweenaw, Baraga, Alger, and Luce
counties, and those portions of Marquette and Chippewa counties north of the T43N-T44N
boundary line. Contact a DNR office if questions. [as per Wildlife Conservation Order, Section 3.100c]
o Food plots are naturally occurring foods, standing agricultural crops, or foods that are placed as
a result of using normal farming practices, and are not considered baiting or feeding.
Recreational Viewing (Deer and Elk) -
• The volume of feed on the ground cannot exceed
two (2) gallons per residence at any time, statewide.
• The feed must be placed within 100 yards of a
residence, on land owned or possessed by that
person.
• The feed must be scattered or dispersed directly
on the ground at least 100 yards from any area
accessible to cattle, goats, sheep, new world
camelids, bison, swine, horses, or captive cervidae
and no more than 100 yards from a residence.
• Any type of food materials can be used.

[chevyjam2001]

Baiting can occur only from October 1 to January 1.
After Jan 1 it is supplemental feeding.

[NorthJeff]

If it goes the way Chevy is saying...wouldn't all those hunters that put out bait the last few days of the season have to go pick up whatever isn't eaten on 11/2? What about those that do not have a tag, or bow or intend to hunt with a bow after rifle, should they have to go out and pick up every unused kernal of corn or leftover chip of carrot?

[chevyjam2001]

I'm just saying what I was told by the local CO. The law states that baiting (having food out to attract deer) can only occur from Oct 1 to Jan 1.

I just commend anyone who can make 2 gallons of mineral last an entire year. I went through about 100 lbs last year:dizzy: .

[chevyjam2001]

Its a know fact that the law is subject to interpretaion. How one CO chooses to enforce it will surely be different form another. :grouphug:

[Trophy Specialist]

If it goes the way Chevy is saying...wouldn't all those hunters that put out bait the last few days of the season have to go pick up whatever isn't eaten on 11/2? What about those that do not have a tag, or bow or intend to hunt with a bow after rifle, should they have to go out and pick up every unused kernal of corn or leftover chip of carrot?
The law does not stipulate that you have to pick up any unused bait after Jan 1 it just governs when the bait can be "put out". The law does not specify a need for a license eithor.

[Trophy Specialist]

I just commend anyone who can make 2 gallons of mineral last an entire year. I went through about 100 lbs last year:dizzy: .
I don't put very much at any one spot. Rather I put out a bunch of small quantities. Even if was legal to put out one huge pile of minerals, I'd still rather put out a buch of smaller quantities because it benifits my hunting strategy better and minimizes nose to nose contact.

[Ferg]

1.
After Jan 1 it is supplemental feeding.


Supplemental Feeding of deer and/or elk is prohibited in Michigan


ferg....

[Munsterlndr]

What I do is put the minerals out in granular form and then rake/mix them into the dirt at the end of hunting season. If you put out two gallons a day for 3 or 4 days and rake it into a 10' x 10' patch it will attract deer for around 6 months. It will be covered by snow until March but once the snow melts the deer will start hitting it hard on a daily basis. They will stir up the dirt somewhat but I have not had a problem with them creating a mud hole. This method will minimize nose to nose contact more than a block or stump will. Purina antler max mixed with crystalized softner salt works pretty well.

[Munsterlndr]

Supplemental Feeding of deer and/or elk is prohibited in Michigan


ferg....

Not totally accurate, it is allowed by permit in a number of Counties in the UP.


"Supplemental feeding of deer is prohibited in Michigan, except a person may engage in the supplemental feeding of deer in Ontonagon, Houghton, Keweenaw, Baraga, Alger, Luce, and those portions of Marquette and Chippewa counties north of the T43N-T44N boundary line if all of the following conditions are met:"

The post that yours was in response to was in error. After Jan. 1st it becomes recreational viewing not supplimental feeding. Recreational viewing is allowed year round with the two gallon limit, as long as it's on private land within 100 yards of the landowners dwelling. It is prohibited in the core TB DMU's.

[Ferg]

I didn't feel like typing that much :yikes: :lol:


But it does raise some questions - and I have talked about this before -

and addressed this in the Ray's forum -

I 'could' or a person could - easily 'skirt' the rule with RecViewing and SuppFeeding -

You could but out 2gals in the morning to 'recview' and come for lunch and 'top up' your 2gals to 'recview' for lunch and again in the evening and before bed and at midnight blah blah - you get the point -

Seems that you could turn recviewing into supfeeding just about anyplace in the state - and 'get away with it' under the recviewing regs'

ferg....

[Munsterlndr]

I didn't feel like typing that much :yikes: :lol:


But it does raise some questions - and I have talked about this before -

and addressed this in the Ray's forum -

I 'could' or a person could - easily 'skirt' the rule with RecViewing and SuppFeeding -

You could but out 2gals in the morning to 'recview' and come for lunch and 'top up' your 2gals to 'recview' for lunch and again in the evening and before bed and at midnight blah blah - you get the point -

Seems that you could turn recviewing into supfeeding just about anyplace in the state - and 'get away with it' under the recviewing regs'

ferg....

You can't do this under rec viewing. The rule says a max of 2 gallons on the ground at any time, so you can't keep topping off the pile.

In my case though I mix the 2 gallons of minerals per day into the dirt and it disappears for all intents and purposes.

Hey, the rule say "on" the ground not "in" the ground. :) I swear that these rules turn all of us into wannabe lawyers.

[Ferg]

You can't do this under rec viewing. The rule says a max of 2 gallons on the ground at any time, so you can't keep topping off the pile.



Just for the sake of discussion - lets say - I put out 2 gals in the early morning - to view the deer - they eat a gal or so - I go back out put another gal on the area - and do that over and over, every time they eat - I come home and keep my 2gal area full - and they get to 'feed' and I get to 'recview'

there never would be more than 2gals on the ground at any one time -

ferg....
Oh well - your right - lets skirt the law and get in trouble - ::yikes:

[chevyjam2001]

The law does not stipulate that you have to pick up any unused bait after Jan 1 it just governs when the bait can be "put out".

The law doesn't say when it can be "put out". It defines the practice of baiting as "putting out" a food to attract deer.

It does however state that it can only "OCCUR" between Oct. 1 and Jan 1. If it remains after 1 Jan the feeding is still occuring.

[bigbuckhunter]

The best advice would be to go to this website on mineral placement and whitetail nutrition I have 7 mineral stations on 1100 acres in southern barry Co and alot of mature bucks on deer cam hitting the sites at all times of the day! www.ebosslog.com (http://www.ebosslog.com) this is a great source of detailed information. The owner will be giving several seminars in April at the Barry Counties Quality Deer management Association habitat days. Great product!

Bigbuckhunter

[Trophy Specialist]

Bigbuckhunter, I looked at that website and they are promoting year round mineral feeding of deer (to sell more product?). The only problem is that I just don't see deer in MI using mineral sites much during late fall and winter. I have a mineral site in my backyard which gets pounded durign the spring, summer and early fall, but after that it gets visited some, but not much licking going on. They also made some other questionable comments in the webpage. I wonder how they plan to explain at their siminar how to get around the law of baiting in MI with their year round mineral supplement suggestions?

[NorthJeff]

TS,

The products are not just for MI hunters, and I know the owner, Perry Russo would only recommend you use legal means of distributing the product. I set-up a site in early Nov. with the mat and wood box buried in the dirt and had deer hit it immediately..and then the snow came. I'll have a camera on it all summer because I don't plan to sift through the dirt to remove the contents :) but it's working very well.

The idea behind the mat and box is to keep the minerals from leaching through the soil. I believe that is less of a concern on my property because in many areas I have "hard-pan" within 2' of the surface, but the idea makes sense and I'm looking forward to seeing how it does. Also, the mineral mix was developed with the aid of an animal nutritionist I believe down in IN that was incredibly eager to work with a new company that wanted to develop a high quality, "high end" product that was geared specifically for deer, and deer only because most companies mix large amounts of low-quality ingrediants or filler to signficantly reduce costs.

I placed the mat about 20" below the surface, than the box, and mixed mineral with the dirt in different amounts to the surface. I placed a camera on the site and received pictures the first night and they continued for about 3 weeks before it was completely covered with 8-10" of snow and the deer began moving out of the area.

Anyways, the product seems like a great idea..but I only have the 3 weeks of experience with it in Nov. I also used his brassica product last fall and had great success....this is 21 days after an 8/9 planting date:

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/Minlick.jpg

[Trophy Specialist]

The products are not just for MI hunters, and I know the owner, Perry Russo would only recommend you use legal means of distributing the product. I set-up a site in early Nov. with the mat and wood box buried in the dirt and had deer hit it immediately..and then the snow came. I'll have a camera on it all summer because I don't plan to sift through the dirt to remove the contents :) but it's working very well.
I know Perry a little too as I have talked to him serveral times. I guess that minerals are a touchy subject in MI. It seems like when it comes to minerals in MI a lot of hunters do not think that the laws on baiting apply. I also see a lot of anti-baiting hunters, (if memory serves me right, yourself included) that speak out againts baiting, yet are all for putting out minerals.

Putting minerals in a burried wood box is an interesting idea. If I had sandy soil, I'd do that, but I'd caution people not to use nails in the box as the deer will probably eat the wood thus ingesting nails. Better to glue it together.

[NorthJeff]

TS,

I'd like to get rid of baiting..yet I have bait on my property and I've always said it's not the bait that is the problem...just the exclusive reliance on baiting for 1 method of hunting and the generation of hunters especially in the U.P. that have never hunted without bait. Also, I don't like what baiting does to our buck age structure by luring the dumbest deer in the woods..a yearling buck, to be shot in the first couple of days of rifle especially onlarge tracks of heavily forested public land. I'm not even sure of the disease threat either and when John Ozoga said maybe it wasn't a good idea for me to use minerals, my response was along the lines of until the 50+ bait piles are eliminated within a couple of miles of my property, the mineral stations are a mute point..not to mention a great spot for a camera to be on or near.

BTW, you can do a search under my name using "reliance", you will see for the past 3 years in 11 different posts just using "reliance" let alone any other word, I have been saying the same thing...the reliance on baiting is what is bad, not the bait itself.


I hunted over bait for the 2nd time in the past 16 years, during Dec. this year and actually had a great time. I hunted every 3-4 days and had a feeder going with a camera on it. I'd already had a great season and it was fun to sit out and watch the deer, and get pictures of them, regardless of whether or not I had a chance at a mature buck. With the warmer weather I also enjoyed relaxing in my my climber and taking naps while taking a little less serious approach for hunting...I even attached the foot rest on my stand so I could recline better...pretty easy on the brain and it was a good cool-down after a busy November.

[Liver and Onions]

. It seems like when it comes to minerals in MI a lot of hunters do not think that the laws on baiting apply. I also see a lot of anti-baiting hunters, (if memory serves me right, yourself included) that speak out againts baiting, yet are all for putting out minerals.


I agree with your point about the number of people on this site that speak out against baiting & yet brag about their salt/minerals stations. I've said this before, but if you don't know the definition of hypocrite, take a look in the dictionary.
What I question is setting out enough salt/minerals before Jan. 1st to last until Oct. 1st. I find that a bit hard to believe. I freely admit that I'm an illegal baiter. I recharged my salt/mineral stations around Thanksgiving time as I was taking down the last of my stands. I will recharge them again in the spring about turkey hunting time. If needed, I'll hit them again in the summer. I'll bet most landowners do so also if they want to tell the truth and don't want to sound like "Mr. Perfect Hunter" as many on this site do.

L & O

[Ferg]

let's not get into the pot/kettle stuff -

To each his own -

ferg....

[chevyjam2001]

I'm with L&O :grouphug: I refresh mine about every 2 weeks in spring and early summer. After that it drops of to a once a month recharge in Jul-Oct.

[NorthJeff]

You guys must have too many deer!!:) I put my minerals out once a year, at a rate of 1 site per 30 acres and it lasts just fine. However, if it would run out I'd put more out...and it did when I had less sites in the past. I didn't put any out this year on on the stump in the above pictures next to the young brassicas and it was visited and eaten all summer long.