Deer & Dirt

[Lew]

I know there is a question about QDMA on this forum, but information in "Quality Whitetails" is about Whitetail Deer Management. So hopefully I can talk about information in the magazine. One article that gave me a lot of insight that I didn't know before, was information on the direct correlation of dirt and the the health of deer. There is a very good reason so many trophy bucks come from Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa. That reason is dirt. I can't repeat the whole article on this forum, but when you have good soil, the plants have loads of minerals and nutrician that lead to large and healthy deer. So one of the key factors in good deer management is to improve the soil. I don't think I would have figured that out on my own. Lew

[Sib]

I can't speak for the moderators, or the site, but as someone who's not always been in agreement with some of the QDMA advocates on this site, I think it's perfectly fine to post/talk about articles in Quality Whitetails. I hope we can talk about any article that discusses whitetail management, regardless of where the article came from. I also think the objection to the prior posts wasn't related to the content, but was on different grounds, which we don't need to rehash.

Back to your topic.

Quality soil and the correlation to quality deer. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, but might be easily overlooked. Also, it's easy to concentrate on the deer we hunt and the conditions we hunt under and sometimes you need to have the benefit of looking at the conditions others have and look at their results. Soil is like that, it's somewhat regional and sometimes the broader look gives good insight, like looking at the soils from other areas, like this article did.

Makes sense when you sit back and give it some thought.

[beer and nuts]

One thing I know for sure, is Kalkaska Sand(thats actually the real name of alot of the sand type in NLP, especially the jackpine substrate soil) will not grow corn, soybeans, quality clover and at best will grow marginal rye. Its best to leave this sand for the Kirland's Warbler and the Jackpine Forests and the occasional 3.5 year old 7 point!!!!

[NorthJeff]

Nothing to improve the quality of the soil either than frequent crop rotations. Once my soils improve each planting is good for 2 years...but the faster you rotate the better the soil and the differances can be stagering in less than a year.

We have another thing going for us up here in the U.P. and that is body size. Typically, the larger the deer, the larger the antlers and our little short-legged, small bodied deer were weeded out centuries ago. Combine good habitat management, good age-structure, and big-bodied deer and even poor soil areas can have impressive results.

[fairfax1]

I thought that was a credible article in the QW mag.

Years ago I read Durward Allen's great book "Our Wildlife Legacy".......and he made the same point there........that good ground grows good stuff - be it corn, herefords, oaks, or deer.

Illinois is such a perfect example. Their yields -across a huge geographical area - on corn & soys are phenomenal. That huge area of Illinois that is covered by these super rich soils produces ...as we all know by simply lookin' at the deer magazines ... really really great whitetails.

An 18-month old male whitetail coming out of central Illinois is simply going to be an animal with better potential than an 18-month old coming out of Kalkaska, Michigan.

That's not to say Kalkaska cannot produce a trophy buck deer ---a P&Y or even B&C ---but when it does it's because that animal started as a really good animal ...then got some years on him. Perhaps, it would be more informative if one said "start with a 100 male fawns in Kalkaska vs. 100 males fawns in Jo Davies County" ..........then after 18-months compare the two populations.

Dirt counts.

[Lew]

Another good point in the QW article is that even areas that don't have good soils generally, can have pockets of very good soil, like along river bottoms etc. Even on my property there is variation in soil quality from one food plot to another just 100 yds apart. So in finding a hunting spot or putting in a food plot checking the soil can give you an advanatge. Seems obvious now that someone pointed it out to me. Lew

[Luv2hunteup]

One of the best reasons to visit your local conservation district is to get a free soils map along with the index. Every county of this state has been inventoried and from my experience it's pretty accurate. Your better soils will produce better results no matter what you are trying to grow.

[farmlegend]

Since I still don't have my October QW yet :rant: , I'll have to take your word for it, Lew.

Good point about "pockets" of good, even great, soil. There are places in southern MI that grow 200 bu. corn in good years, a respectable number even in central Illinois. What does that mean for us deer managers? Get some age on our deer, and we can produce bucks and does darn near as impressive as in the best areas of the USA.

Note that I said "bucks and does". We already have pretty good age structure in the doe segment of our herd, and I'd bet that 5.5 year old does in southern Michigan's better-soil areas have average body weights nearly as heavy as 5.5 year old does in America's premier whitetail zones.

As for bucks, IMO, unless we see some changes in our regs, 5.5 year olds will continue to be quite unnaturally rare.

[poz]

I've always stated that minerals in the soil help grow big antlers, That is the problem I see in Lake county, As I stated in previous threads that the soil is poor in this county, that is why the bucks will never be as big as they might be in Jackson or hillsdale counties. Lake county and much of the NLP is basically 2 to 3 inches of poor soil with all sand underneath it. If you till a certain area, sand will come up. It's a basic fact, That is why certain counties are not farming comunities and we shouldn't think that food plots and AR will automatically turn these counties into B&C counties.The minerals are just not there unless we place them there and how much would we have to place in order to see a change.

[Lew]

POZ, has a good point. I wonder, if in areas with soils low in minerals, could you make a significant difference by putting out mineral supplements. I have a spot where I spread mineral salt and dicalcium phospate (DICAL) on the ground as an attractant. It gets a lot of use especially in the Spring. Perhaps I should have several scatter on the property and how much would be needed to make a real difference??? That question could be a good topic for a future article in QW magazine. Lew

[wecker20]

I've always stated that minerals in the soil help grow big antlers, That is the problem I see in Lake county, As I stated in previous threads that the soil is poor in this county, that is why the bucks will never be as big as they might be in Jackson or hillsdale counties. Lake county and much of the NLP is basically 2 to 3 inches of poor soil with all sand underneath it. If you till a certain area, sand will come up. It's a basic fact, That is why certain counties are not farming comunities and we shouldn't think that food plots and AR will automatically turn these counties into B&C counties.The minerals are just not there unless we place them there and how much would we have to place in order to see a change.
But a 3.5 year old buck won't be a spike or some scrawny 3 point either. Lake county has plenty of good soil around wet lands, rivers, and streams. My land has light soils but also has very good black soil for a good foot or more. There are active farms around me that produce some very healthy corn and clover for hay. Also see that big buck or two every year that has lived beyond 3.5 years or more. Age is the biggy IMO.

[poz]

But a 3.5 year old buck won't be a spike or some scrawny 3 point either. Lake county has plenty of good soil around wet lands, rivers, and streams. My land has light soils but also has very good black soil for a good foot or more. There are active farms around me that produce some very healthy corn and clover for hay. Also see that big buck or two every year that has lived beyond 3.5 years or more. Age is the biggy IMO.

Age does play a factor, but if you look at where most record book bucks are shot, it's mostly in farming counties that have rich soils. Sure you can find rich soils in every county, But there is a difference when rich soils occupy 90-100% of the county and when they only occupy 10-20% of a county.

What many people fail to understand is that it takes many different factors to raise a record book buck in the wild. you can't just think that 1 thing will do it, whether it's AR's, food or genetics, It has to be a combination of things that will enable a buck to become a trophy. and if one thing is missing the odds are it will never reach it's full potential.