venison ham?

[weatherby]

anybody know how to make ham out of venison?i know it can be done, just not how.

[ice fishin' nut]

Your gonna need a good stout brine with alot of salt,,,, then a good amout of smoking under low temps with alot of hickory..... PM me if ya want the exact recipe....


IFN:D

[ice fishin' nut]

Weatherby,,,,,

So sorry buddy, I forgot all about you and your request for the ham recipe...... Alot of things going on around the homestead!!!!


Here it is;

I'm going to give you my grandfathers recipe, it is a dry cure instead of a brine.... I think it tastes better, both are alot of work though.....

Basic Recipe for Dry Cure;
5 lbs non iodized salt
1 lb regular sugar
1 oz Saltpeter-(sodium nitrate-I get mine form a local mom and pop pharmacy, the pharmacist orders it for me)
2 tablespoons garlic powder
2 tablespoons onion powder
1 small pkg whole mixed pickling spices

thoroughly mix all ingredients ahead, and let sit for 24 hours for flavors to meld together....

For the actual ham making process;

You are going to need 1 ounce of the dry rub salt for every pound of meat, rub it into the meat, paying special attention to work it in around any bones.
Refrigerate at 38 to 40 degrees for 3 days per pound of meat. Temp is important, at 35 the absorpsion of the cure slows down, and at 42 or higher the meat degrades to quickly.(according to grandpa)
I have a old fridge in the shed that is set to 39 that I use.

Remove from fridge, and lightly wash off any remaining cure. Let dry in fridge for 24 hours before smoking....

Now comes the fun part, the meat has to be cold smoked for about 40 hours...... What your looking for is temps around 75 to 85, with constant smoke..... 40 hours of smoke seems to be the best, depending on your smoker,and things going around your house, and sleeping, it might take you 2 to 3 weeks before you have achieved 40 hours of direct smoke,,,,

After you have achieved the 40 hours, I usually bring the ham into the kitchen and put it in the oven at 225 for 4 hours to finish it off!!!!!

Its alot of work, but if you follow this recipe, you will have a finished product that cant be bought in normal stores..... You might be able to find something similar in a gourmet store for about $25.00 a pound!!!!!

Good Luck,

IFN:D

P.S. Sorry again!!!

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN

Sounds like your Grandpa knew how to make ham.

Dry rubs will always give a better flavor than brine. That is because each spice and seasoning in the rub imparts its individual flavor directly into the meat.

When using a brine, all of that flavor is imparted to the brine where it is diluted and blended with all of the other flavors. Then the meat is flavored by the brine.

One caution when using dry rubs. It is easy to oversalt if:

1. you do not follow the recipe.

2. you do not allow enough time for the rub to be absorbed totally.

3. you do not rinse the excess rub off of the surface prior to smoking.

In one of my early experiments in using dry rubs, we had a fairly large gathering at our house and I was preparing smoked chicken. When the chicken came out of the smoker it look wonderful - it smelled wonderful. HOWEVER - it was so salty that no one could eat it.

Prior to making venison ham, it might be good to perfect your recipe on a chunk of beef or pork from the store.

Salmonsmoker

[ice fishin' nut]

Salmonsmoker,,,,

If that is the case,,,, that dry rubs are better,,,,, do you have any dry rub recipes that will work for smoked fish or for making jerky???? I honestly havent heard of any, and unfortunatly dont have as much experience as you, so please help!!!!! If there is a better way, I want to learn it...... My Grandpa always said that the only way not to learn is to not ask for help!!!!!!

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN,

It has taken me a while to get back with this becaue I loaned one of my books out and just got it back. This is from the "Home Book Of Smoke-Cooking Meat, Fish, & Game" by Sleight & Hull.

The dry rub that they recommend for fish:

2 lbs salt
1 lb dark brown surag
2 tblsp saltpeter (potassium nitrate)
2 tblsp onion powder
1 tblsp white pepper
1 tblsp garlic powder.

The main difference between this dry cure and other is that it is sweeter. Certainly, other spices can be added to taste.

The problem is how much to use is not specified. When I experimented with this mixture a few years ago, it turned out way too salty. Perhaps this spring I need to catch some Suckers and do some more experimenting. Will let you know.

Salmonsmoker

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN

Several weeks ago Meijers had Pork tenderloins on sale for $1.95 per lb. I bought several in the 3 to 4 lb range and put them in the freezer. One-at-a-time, I am experimenting with variations of your Grandpa's recipe using them. So far I don't have one finished yet - still 30 hours of smoke to go. Will let you know how they tury out.

Salmonsmoker.

[ice fishin' nut]

I've never tried it with pork loin, good idea though, we have 2 in the freezer, might have to take one out and give it a shot!!! Let me know your results....

[HemlockNailer]

Salmonsmoker, I bought two of those pork tenderloins and used one to make Canadian Bacon. Bought the spices pre-packaged from Hi -Mountain Co. Mix is called Buck Board Bacon,tastes great!

[ice fishin' nut]

Hemlock,,,, I have been looking for that stuff ever since you told me about it, but cant find it!!!!! Been to Gander Mountain, and have been checking at other stores as well...... HELP!!!!!!

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN,

After 20 hours of smoke, and getting up every morning with the house smelling like ham, I tried the first experiment. Even with 20 hours of smoke still planned, my compliments to your Grandpa's ham-making skills. It has an excellent flavor.

In my second experiment - and since I like my ham a bit sweeter than some, I added dextrose (sausage sweeting sugar) to the dry-rub. Will be a while before that one is done.

In a third experiemnt just started last night, I added 1 tsp of Mesquet (SP?) liquid somke per lb of meat to the dry rub - made it into a paste and rubbed that in. It will be an even longer while befor this one is done. Will keep you posted.

Salmonsmoker

[Salmonsmoker]

I received an e-mail questioning why all of this discussion on making ham out of Pork Loin when this is a wild-game cooking forum. I will answer that e-mail here.

The process of making ham requires some experimenting for most of us. I choose to do my experimenting - to come up with the flavor that I want - on store-bought meat. I can replace store-bought meat if an experiment turns out with a flavor that is something other than what I want. Once I have a process that gives me the flavor that I want, I will duplicate it using Venison and I will let you know how it turns out.

I hope this answers your question.

Salmonsmoker

[ice fishin' nut]

Glad all is going well,,,, keep posting results!!!!

[ice fishin' nut]

How many hours left to go on the first one??????

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN,

I've gotten to 30 hours so far (can get in 2 to 3 hours after work most evenings.) It will likely be finished this weekend.

Will let you know how it turns out.

The whole house smells like smoked ham - that is good.

Salmonsmoker

[Salmonsmoker]

IFN,

I got it finished last evening. This morning, I made ham and eggs for breakfast. Results as follows:

1. Excellent flavor through out most of the meat but it varried. used the 3-days-per-pound formula so the variation may well be due to the temperature in my frig (lower temps slow the absorption of the cure and I do have to share the frig). I looked up some info in the "Home Book Of Smoke-Cooking Meat, Fish, and Game." In there it states that to get the best flavor and the most consistant flavor- after rinsing and before smoking, let the meat age (in the frig) for up to 4 weeks. Will do some more experimenting on that.

2. My personal preference is for a sweeter ham. Will let you know about experiment #2 where I added to the cure, and equal amount of dextrose sausage sweetner.

3. My Wife thought that experimental batch #1 was slightly salty - but not all of it. Again, my thinking here is that it needed time after curing to get a more consistant flavor because the salt had apparently not equalized throughout the meat

4. Every recipe that I have read calls for 40 hours of smoke. However, my observations are that after about 25 hours, there was more change in the color than in the flavor. Certainly, that rich brown color blended with the red from the cured meat is visually very appealing. I saw a clip on a news program a while back about someone making pork-shoulder ham's for their family xmas-presents and they used 40 hours of smoke with corn-cobs - accoring to the report corn cobs give an excellent smoke-flavor. On the same subject, the 40 hours may be based on a more historical, large walk-in type smoke house. In such an environment, the smoke density would likely be much less than in the modern smokers. That subject will requeire more experimenting.

Will keep you updated on the progress of the other experimental batches now underway.

Salmonsmoker

[sausageman]

SalmonSmoker,,,you still got the smoke rollin on that pork loin?? I cannot wait to hear the outcome. Keep us posted on the progress

[Salmonsmoker]

After the first 20 hours of smoking, I started taking off a "thin slice" each day in order to keep a running account of the flavor. By the time I got to 40 hours there was not anything left.

The second experiment - Using IFN's Grandpa's recipe with the addition of Dextrose Sausage Sweeter just got it's first 12 hours of smoke yesterday. Will be testing it after today.

Also have a batch of jerky going in the smoker (helps to fill up the space.) Will let you know how it turns out.

Salmonsmoker

[Salmonsmoker]

The 2nd experiment was good enough to share with others so it went very quickly. The addition of an equal amount of dextrose to the cure did make a sweeter flavor, however, the actual cure used (1 oz per lb of meat) must be doubled because it is only 1/2 as strong.

In my 3rd experiment - adding 1 tsp of liquid somke to the dextrose/cure mixture - Had only a slightly more smoky flavor than the 2nd. That too was given out as samples to family members.....all gone. It is very good but not quite where I want it to be yet.

Yesterday I started experiment #4 and 5.

#4 - adding 1 TBLSP of liquid smoke per lb of meat (after talking to several local meat-curers, this was suggested because the liquid smoke added to the rub gives it a chance to penetrate entirely through the meat. Then when the meat is smoked, it has the surface flavor of my Oak/Hickory smoke, with the additional smoke flavor inside the meat.)

#5 is based on something that my Wife did. One day last week when I got home from work, the house had a delightful aroma floating through. In the slow cooker (crock pot) there was a pork roast that had been cooked in a Raspberry & Wallnut Vinegarette salad dressing....we ate the whole thing. It had a wonderfull flavor. With that, I experimented (very small taste-tests) with the cure/dextrose/liquid-smoke combination and the addition of the salad dressing. I ended up with 1 TBLSP per pound of meat. With the 1 TBLSP of liquid smoke and the 1 TBLSP of salad dressing added to the rub, it became a thin paste rub.....took longer to rub in but it works.

I am also going to leave both of these last two experiments in the frig for 5 days per pound. I think our frig is cool enough to slow the curing process some.

Once I have this recipe adjusted to the flavor that I want, I will be ready to try it on some real meat (Venison). Hopefully will have some samples for the outing in Durrand.

Basically, between the ham experiments, making jerky, and making smoked cheese, I am keeping the smoker going almost every evening and all day on the weekends (except last weekend when we took 4 days to go up to some public lands in Oceana County on a guided Coyote Hunt. The full moon was out, but there was not enough snow to see them - did call in one pack of three - also in the early AM light we called in a flock of crows and one Red-shouldered Hawk swooped down very close before discovering us.)

Will keep you updated on the meat-curing experiments.

Sallmonsmoker

[ice fishin' nut]

I wish that we lived next door to one another,,,, I have never met anyone that loves to smoke and cook as much as I do, until meeting you here on the site!!!!!

It would be so much more convienient to swap recipes and experiments that way!!!!

[Salmonsmoker]

An update on the pork-loin Canadian Bacon experiment: The last two recipies have been in the refirgerator for almost 20 days. This next weekend, they will get rinsed and dried, then the 40 hours of smoke will begin.

After these experiments, I will be ready to try some Venison.

SS

[Salmonsmoker]

Update on the two experimental batches of cured tenderloin:

Experiment #4 with a TBSP of liquid smoke per lb added to the cure. After 24 days in the frig the meat had firmed up a lot. On the outside it was more brown that I had expected. It has so far been in the smoker for 10 hours.

Experiment #5 with the one TBSP per lb of Raspberry Walnut Vinergrett dressing added to the cure, I was totally surprised - it stayed a very bright red but was firm. It too has been in the smoker for 10 hours so far.

(A slight diversion) Since there is plenty of room in my smoker, I also made up a test-batch of Venison Jerky using Morton Tender Quick (at the Lansing Deer & Turkey show I talked to the guys from Butchers and Meat Packers Supply and they said that Morton has made that product for almost 100 years so it would make a good experiment). I followed their directions for the brine strength. For my taste, it was way too salty. In a second test batch I diluted the brine strength 50%. It gave an acceptable salt level but needed some spices added to give a better flavor.

I will be sampling Experiments #4 & 5 after they get 25 + hours of smoke & will let you know how they turn out.

Salmonsmoker

[pawclaws]

Looks like those treatments will definitely put a cure on the ham!! I have a couple recipes this month on my site. One for "fresh" venison ham and another for smoking one that is to be used right away.
http://www.ohiocampcooks.org/custom3.html
I can see already though, with only two hams per deer, that there might be a problem here in Ohio! :yikes: